Polish President plane crash in Russia

[Theis]

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and scores of others are believed to have been killed in a plane crash in Russia.

[B-Valvs]

Just saw this. Many of the top civil and military leaders were on the plane. There were no survivors. Strange to see this happen to a plane carrying such important people.

8-)

[Pablo]

An absolute tragedy for all the people of Poland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612825.stm

[SeanTK]

Holy crap............

[SaultFresh]

I think it might be fitting to have a little moment of silence for the victims of this plane crash. Whether you're Polish, or are against the politics of Poland, remember that aviation is not about race, or colour, gender, or nationality, it's about desire, passion and attitude. My personal condolences to the families of the two pilots, and to any others that are mourning the loss of the pilots, airplane, or others on board. Fly safely.

[expat]

EDIT:
I'm prepared to defend the Tu-154M type, so before anyone starts ripping on it....don't try it.

Not quite sure what there is to defend, though from 205 aircraft 37 hull loses is rather high. However in this case it is looking like pilot error. Reports have it that the crew ignored air traffic instructions to divert due to the fog.

Matt

[SeanTK]

Around 320 of the M model has been produced. There have been 37 hull losses across all Tu-154 versions (such as the B and B2). This would bring it up to 37 losses over what I think was a production run of a little over 1000. I need to look up the exact production run numbers though, and it depends on if you consider non-airline prototypes.
I've already seen numerous other sources rip on Russian aviation already, so that was a preemptive comment. In actuality, the accident statics aren't all that different from Western types. People just seem to enjoy the Russian plane = bad mindset that has hasn't died off yet since the Soviet Union collapsed.

You're right though, this looks like it was pilot error, since the tower was trying to insist on a different destination.
I may be wrong, but I believe Smolensk airport lacks an ILS system (not sure if they have that precision military system, can't remember what it is called. Ivan might know.).

Looks like it was just a case of a series of poor decisions that resulted in an unfortunate tragedy.
It will be interesting to see the actions of the Polish government following this mess.

[OVERLORD_CHRIS]

Yeah I saw this when I was going to work, very sad thing to happen to Poland's leaders.

And the plane was not at fault:

But the head of Russia's Aviakor aviation maintenance company told Russian TV the plane was airworthy, after his plant fully overhauled it in December.

To think that the pilot would try something so unsafe with the President on board is unthinkable! I thought that every pilot no matter who they are flying puts the safety of passengers first, not trying to show how bold you are.

I have never hard of any pilot flying any high ranking VIP/DV around every thinking of any thing other then the safety of the plane and the passengers.

[Rich H]

How terrible, must be a great shock to the people. 
I only hope the country can manage with the loss of so many senior figures.

[Tai-2]

[quote]How terrible, must be a great shock to the people.

[SaultFresh]

Someone said that they couldn't believe the pilots would try such a dangerous act because of who was on board. I think that's the exact reason why they tried to make it into an airport that obviously wasn't accessible by means of a safe way. If they couldn't make it in there, the people on board could have question the pilots ability. Pretty much the whole "if you're not willing to do it, than we'll go find someone else" mentality. I'm not saying that's the case, but I know they were given an opportunity to shine in front of their country's leader, and it clearly didn't pay off.

[Ivan]

@sean: when you exclude all 'external factors' crashes (shot down, bomb on board) the score is not bad at all.

But looking at the cockpit photos i can see some things which (combined with pilot error) could have lead to this happening:
The airport that they were landing on does only have NDB and RSBN beacons (with only the RSBN providing distance information), while the plane only has VOR, NDB and something that looks like a combined INS/GPS unit. They were flying into there whitout any distance reference (and being a military airport, the published GPS data, if available, is almost certain to be incorrect)

While it is rare to have a RSBN reciever in a civil plane, some have it (LZ-LCQ, RA-85840), and even military planes were delivered whitout these.

[expat]

And the plane was not at fault:

But the head of Russia's Aviakor aviation maintenance company told Russian TV the plane was airworthy, after his plant fully overhauled it in December.

Although not in this case, statistically speaking the first few months following a major overhaul is the most dangerous time in an aircraft's life. It is this time that the bolt that was not torqued properly or forgotten about or only finger tight that comes off or incorrect installation of a vital part that was overlooked due to human factors is missed and then turns into a tragic accident. Fortunately 99% of problems that are aircraft threatening are found on the ground and then (this will make the sphincter twitch) on the whole, are found by accident

As for putting passengers in danger, we are applying western standards and mind set to a country that has different views of the value of life and national pride (Russian pilots, Polish President).

And remember it is business that runs a country not the government. They are in place to tax you, send your armed forces to war and tell you how you should live. If this was any other western country it would not be a biggy though, but a former Eastern Block country with plenty of political sickles to grind..........

Matt

[expat]

It now appears that the is more to this story than meats they eye. It turns out that the Polish president had a habit of dismissing flight crews if they did not land at his chosen airport, for what ever reason. So add a life as a grounded, embarrassed, shamed and jobless flight crew into the equation, it would appear that the presidents demise could have been of his own making :-?

Matt

[Al_Fallujah]

I am curious where you got the info that the President dismissed flight crews in the past.  Got a link?

I have heard another theory put forward.
Fair warning to all, I am I simply repeating, and this refelcts no attempt to start a political debate.

The Poles and The Russians, specifically, Putin, do not get along all that well. There is a checkered past. The theory suggests that that the ground telling the pilots to land somewhere else was interpreted by the late President as an attempt to delay him, maybe even cause him to miss the ceremony that was marking a painful and embarrassing part of Russian history. In short, he did not trust them, and he insisted that they land there.

Again, theory, not mine. If you disagree, fine, but keep it on the level.