No pilots?

[JBaymore]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26794290/

[RitterKreuz]

[i]Flight attendants
Federal rules require a minimum number of flight attendants for every plane

[expat]

Flight attendants are life savers who happen to be able to serve a meal and a drink between emergencies. I would never fly on an aircraft or with a company that tried to fly without them.

Matt

[tcco94]

The reporter also says people turn there heads when someone overweight comes on board. Whats his problem..
Thats just mean I mean im sure there already embarrased enough with another seat.

Im not overweight but I dont like people who say stuff like that.

Also the computer flying airplanes just seems a little over the top to me. I mean I like the jets and all there new technology but now computers flying airplanes.
I'd rather drive.

[Hagar]

Although this article appears to be written "tongue-in-cheek" it raises some interesting points. I have to agree with some of the suggestions.

I've never thought that carrying air marshals solves anything. Dumping the whole useless idea would save a fortune.

It's often crossed my mind that those duty-free carts (for want of a better name) are one of the most hazardous things ever devised for use in a passenger cabin. The sale of duty-free goods (mainly alcohol & tobacco) obviously makes huge profits for the airlines but surely it's time for a new approach to this outdated idea. For example, the cabin crew could take orders for goods to be collected at the destination airport. This solves two problems at a stroke as the duty-free goods don't need to be carried on the aircraft. Imagine how much unnecessary weight that would save. It would also prevent passengers getting pissed on duty-free alcohol they purchase on the flight as is apparently a common cause of the air-rage incidents I read about.

Where weight is important you have to consider the passengers. I've often thought that charging by weight is not a bad idea. You pay for excess baggage so why not yourself? I've put on a considerable amount of weight since giving up smoking. If I'm not careful I will no longer be able to fly as a passenger in light aircraft where every pound is vitally important. I'm already on the top limit for aircraft like the Piper Cub. This is a good incentive to keep my weight down.

[C]

I can understand some of them - in flight meals for example; on a flight of only 2-3 hours are they necessary? No. Eat before or after. Same with alcohol. The crew aren't allowed on the plane drunk, so why should he pax be any different - in an emergency they need to be just as capable as a crew.

Talking of emergencies, the reporter obviously has no idea of the role of the cabin crew, or those at the front end either.

Duty free? Plenty available at the airports, but sadly they're too much of a moneyspinner.

[expat]

As many of you know, I spanner for an airline and being on the sharp end of the potential financial knife in the ribs weight is always something that makes me think. Whist this guy, tongue in cheek or not has no idea about the role of flight crews, he does have some good points. A flight of up to 4 hours, do you really need to eat? You have breakfast at 06:00 and then lunch on a normal day at around midday. That is a break of up to six hours. Why can't that be the same in an aircraft. I have always been convinced that it has been a way to break up a flight and alleviate the boredom factor. If meals where a thing of the past, then we can rip out the galleys. Have you seen some? Even in the 737, they are over kill. 99% of food is served direct from the trolleys, the other 1% is the hot foil meals that need to be heated, thus requiring a huge galley and up to five ovens. In my company, hot meals are on flights over 4 hours, but why? The rest of the time, it is dead weight. The same calorific content can be obtained with cold food, there is no compelling reason to have hot food. Another point, he makes, toilets. The 737 and A320 family have three. One up front and two "down the back". Why??. The last time you flew, how many people actually needed to go to the toilet? In reality, a very small percentage of the passenger total, so does this total actually reflect the number of pots that is requires, I think not. One toilet and que, just like you do at the local shopping center. Paper products, what did you find in the seat pocket the last time you flew? A magazine, safety card, sick bag, duty free pamphlet, time table, route map. What do we actually need, a sick bag and a safety card. Life vest under every seat, not sure about that one. Most of the time they kill more passengers than they save due to being inflated in the cabin and preventing proper egress and then drowning the victim. Here is another idea, do we really need arm rests on every seat?, apart from your computer chair or the office chair and maybe your car if you are rolling in it, when do you sit in a chair with arm rests? They are are a throw back to the early days of flying when it was an adventure and a the privilege of the rich elite. In flight entertainment, a screen in every seat back, a luxury, what was wrong with a couple of monitors in the ceiling down the center of the aircraft. For example, a 737 or A320, requires three monitors and two wall mounted screens for the entire aircraft to see. But no, we all have to have a personal monitor to watch. I replace these things when they are broken and in aircraft terms, they weigh a ton! Carpet, it is very, very heavy, hard to clean and wears out very quickly. Also it is not water proof and helps corrosion very well. Why not, for want of a better word, "lino". Todays products are vastly superior to that of the 70's, and much harder wearing. What about overhead bins. Apart from a hand bag, "hand luggage" should go into the hold, you don't need 99% of it. This saves weight and adds to security AND means you don't spend an eternity in security screening waiting for the idiot in front of you having half of his wash bag removed. Just a few points for thought.

Matt

[Hagar]

They are are a throw back to the early days of flying when it was an adventure and a the privilege of the rich elite.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. Things like serving hot meals & free alcoholic drinks is a throwback to an earlier age. It also helps to break up the journey & keep the passengers occupied. On all but long-haul flights a cold snack & bottle of water would do the same thing.

Not so sure I agree on the amount of toilets though. On most flights I've been on there were queues up both aisles for most of the flight. These get in the way of those stupid serving trolleys & cause all sorts of frustration. Stands to reason that if you serve food & drink on the flight more people will want to use the toilet.

I realise it's not likely to happen but I would like to see alcohol banned on all flights. They did the same with smoking which should never have been allowed in the first place* so why not?

*I wonder how many people know that there was a smoking lounge on the Hindenburg & its sister hydrogen-filled airships. Seems ridiculous now doesn't it?

[Brett_Henderson]

I've opined about the state of commercial air travel here; a couple of times. I'm not for making it the sole luxury of the rich, but I am for returning it to what it was when I was growing up. Something special (and yes expensive) that was reserved for special, or business required occasions. Somehow, between my childhood and now, people havve come to expect to be able to fly on a whim, for next to nothing.

That worked out well, for a while, for the airlines and aircraft companies, as the grew and expanded.. but we've long since reached a saturation point. Airports are over-crowded (by aircraft and people).. ATC is over-burdened... flight-crews are stressed out and fatigued... stewardesses are worn thin and cranky... and maintanence crews are over-worked and under-paid.

Remember the days when a pilot was a bigger-than-life figure ? Most likely a seasoned veteran with the gray hairs of wisdom and a military background ? Boys AND their fathers would stop and watch when the crew boarded the plane, almost in awe, "That's our captain, he'll be flying this plane".

Now, they're stressed out young men, living out of motels, functioning on irregular sleeping patterns. Stewardesses used to be cheery and encouraging and big part of the experience... a glamorous job that people lined up for.

[Hagar]

Remember the days when a pilot was a bigger-than-life figure ? Most likely a seasoned veteran with the gray hairs of wisdom and a military background ? Boys AND their fathers would stop and watch when the crew boarded the plane, almost in awe, "That's our captain, he'll be flying this plane"

There are still some around like that. This chap for one. They don't come any larger-than-life than this.


He lost his job after a brush with authority & now helps his wife run a hotel in Leamington Spa. When I had the good fortune of meeting him a few months ago he was waiting for an inquiry into the incident.

Afraid I can't agree with your vision of flying being the prerogative of the wealthy. I don't think he would either, in fact I'm sure of it. The Boeing 747 opened up world travel to ordinary people like me & we rather like it. Biggles without a helmet

[JBaymore]

.......leaving fewer who will be able to start charging a price for tickets that will allow for reasonable pay-rates for airline personel, and leave the flying public as a much smaller lot..

The "model" at least here in the USA is that the CEO and executives will get the lion's share of any larger paychecks......... and the ticket sellers, gate agents, mechanics, flight attendants, and pilots will NOT see much improved.

Then when the airline goes bust, and all those front line people get laid off, the CEO and executives will just move for awhile to their posh estates on some tropical island (complaining about their lot in life), while lining up a new job for themselves making even more absurd amounts of money at other's expense.

best,

....................john

[Brett_Henderson]

Afraid I can't agree with your vision of flying being the prerogative of the wealthy

[Hagar]

Afraid I can't agree with your vision of flying being the prerogative of the wealthy

 ... and I wouldn't want to try to convince you  :)

Either extreme is bad..  And the era you mentioned was ok.. it worked. More and bigger planes opened air travel up to the masses.. a good thing.. but like anything else taken too far, it goes sour. Not only is air travel unpleasant now..  the airlines are cutting each other's throats.

I can only speak from my own experience. Things might be different in your part of the world. I last flew on an airliner earlier this year. This was on a charter flight to Cyprus with Thomas Cook Airlines. A little cramped but I rather enjoyed it. I hope to do it again before too long.

Quite a few holiday airlines have gone bust recently, two or three in the last month. I think the last official figures I saw were 26 over the last 12 months. I suspect things will sort themselves out eventually. Survival of the fittest just like it's always been. Like you I think we've seen the best of cheap air travel, or worst depending on the way you look at it.

[machineman9]

I would never get on a plane that had no pilot. Seriously... that is a silly idea. Okay UAVs exist, but then again do they carry hundreds of passengers? They have a few key roles then fly back home... having no pilots to me just seems like jumping off a cliff and hoping you grow wings or that you evolve to have superhuman fall resistance before you hit the deck.

Old, but just why we should have pilots



Everyone and everything, as far as I am aware, has a purpose on the aircraft. Be it comfort, entertainment, safety or a steady flight. When you start to remove these... people get angry and mishaps tend to go out of control and become more serious. I would like to see what happens to the people who decided to remove the life jackets when they are dumped in the middle of the ocean left to float around on their own energy.

[Rich H]

To be honest, I would prefer flying on a old fashioned plane like the Boeing 707, than go on a computer controlled plane. Technology isn't always great for everyone.