The right to die

[Hagar]

I still repeat what I said earlier. [quote]the question of whether anyone has motives for her death does not arise. This matter can be decided whether she's dead or not & the investigation can take as long as it takes.

[Politically Incorrect]

PS. I have the feeling that this case is being used by various pressure groups on either side to promote their own interests. They can protest all they like but I doubt they have any real concern for the unfortunate woman they are callously using for their own benefit.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that can see this

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]Woodlouse2002 - Why can't he divorce her? If she is in the state that he claims, it won't hurt her feelings at all.

[alrot]

No easy answer to this & each case must be individually judged by the people who know best. That's the medical experts. However difficult it might be I would have to accept their advice on that. I only know what I've heard on brief news reports on the radio so I'm not qualified to comment on this particular case. I'm not in favour of keeping people alive artificially unless there's a good chance of recovery with some quality of life. This wouldn't have cropped up before the technology was available & she would have been allowed to pass away naturally. I'm quite certain that in the past people have been quietly assisted to die to prevent further suffering. You would shoot an animal in similar circumstances to put it out of its misery.

Im agree as hagar said is not a very simple answer ,i think for the very first time in modern times the society is facing with a very hard and old issue,if they give the yes to

[jordonj]

,i think for the very first time in modern times the society is facing with a very hard and old issue,

I'm not sure I understand what you meant there, but if I read you correctly, you are saying this is a new controversey.

It really isn't as I remember a couple of cases in the mid 80's:

One involved a quadraplegic woman who was wanting the right to starve herself (and to be given painkillers in the process), saying that her condition had stripped her of the will to live.  It was quite a lengthly battle as the hospital kept connecting her to a nasogastric tube (a feeding tube that goes into the nose and down to the stomach).  This was before Dr. Kevorkian came on the scene.

Another involved an elderly man who lay immobile to a breathing tube connected to his neck.  He was unable to speak, but made his wishes clear by nodding his head.  The Hospital refused to disconnect him...

[Saitek]

What a wicked and evil society we live in. Where there are people slaying the unborn by the millions each day, slaughtering the elderly and hastening the sick to the grave. Survival of the fittest eh? Every beast for himself?

It makes me so angry when people go on about Human Rights until the cows come home and will defend some idiots right at the cost of thousands of pounds to do something, like a murderer or pedophile, for example, suing about some trivial thing which he believes breaches his human rights. When it comes to the silent mouths of society, when it comes to the weak of society, when it comes to the unborn of society, when it comes to the vulnerable of society, when it comes to those who need decisions made for them in society the state kill them off like Hitler did to the weak of the Third Reich and ALL under the deceitful title of Human Rights. And at the same time I can murder someone and walk the streets again just a dozen years later.  Some Human Rights. Some laws, some earth we live on. Oh the depravity!

I can't understand people who just don't value life. Precious, precious life.

[Hagar]

I can't understand people who just don't value life. Precious, precious life.

I know I'm wasting my time Ben but what is life all about if you can't enjoy or appreciate it? I can't imagine what it would be like to be completely helpless without being able to move, see, hear or communicate with anyone. I do know that I couldn't bear it & would be begging anyone with any sense of mercy to end it as quickly & painlessly as possible. The only problem is that I can't communicate with anyone to tell them how I feel. I would call allowing such an existence to end compassion, not murder. We will have to agree to differ on that, which demonstrates the whole problem. This is not a new argument, it's been going on for centuries & from what I can see it's impossible to resolve.

[Deputy]

Think about this - I don't know if it has been brought up yet or not, and I honestly don't have the time to check.

It is more inhumane to keep her alive and suffering than it is to let her go.

[jordonj]

I can't understand people who just don't value life. Precious, precious life.

But Saitek, should people who have made their wishes clear be forced to be kept alive via machines?

I think you misunderstand my point of view...just because I support a person's right to refuse extraordinary measures (particularly in the case of severely handicapped and elderly patients) does not mean that I don't value life...far from it!!!

Having had experience working in a nursing home gives me quite a different perspective...I noticed that many people that seem to insist that people should be kept alive, no matter the means, do little to improve the quality of life for such residents: work in a nursing home on the front line (as say a CENA) and you'll see what I mean...

My own Great Grandmother died in a nursing home after a long slide downhill with a brain tumor (she told her daughter towards the end "why can't I just die"...she was blind and paralyzed...the facility wanted to insert a feeding tube as she could no longer swallow, but she and her daughter refused)...

My Grandfather died in 2001...towards the end, he was wondering how much longer he would have to put up with this...he had battled a terrible rhumatoid arthritis for over 10 years and his wife had died three years earlier...

It's not about valuing life...it's about what's humane...

[Saitek]

I don't think she would want to die - her husband was not for her death before and now he is. She never asked to die that I am aware of and never signed any document. You can't read her mind - you don't know what she is thinking yet she is slowly being starved and dehydrated to death. Torture and murder. ANty even if she had signed a formula she could change her mind and nothing could be done. She won't be in pain - just asleep. Now if she is asleep - fine - she may be in her own world, taking in her surroundings, but unable to express it.

[jordonj]

I don't think we're talking about the same thing here...

Saitek, there are people who have made their wishes clear, only to have their family decide they knew better, and took extraordinary measures to keep them alive anyways.

Remember, I did not intend this to be a debate about Terry Schavio.

[Hagar]

I've already made my position quite clear & see no point in continuing this discussion. I'm well aware that nothing I say will change anyone's views, any more than anyone can change mine. I just hope that should I end up in this situation someone would have the compassion & guts to put an end to it. No fuss, just get it over with as quickly as possible. I'll sign the papers now if I thought it would make any difference. One thing I find interesting about all this. Someone might even have mentioned it before. We seem to have opposing views on the subjects of both mercy killing & death sentences for criminals. I agree with mercy killing but not with the death sentence. Strange that don't you think? I don't understand how I can be accused of not appreciating the value of life.

[Scottler]

If you've made your wishes known through the appropriate legal channels, then this isn't an issue.

However, if there's no living will in place at the time of the event, then we should always err on the side of life.  To just assume that she doesn't want to live because YOU don't want to is insane.

I'm done debating this, because it physically sickens me to think that there are people in this world who would kill someone because they themselves don't want to live.

[alrot]

I know I'm wasting my time Ben but what is life all about if you can't enjoy or appreciate it? I can't imagine what it would be like to be completely helpless without being able to move, see, hear or communicate with anyone..

Everything its relative sorry im not agree you can appreciate in many different ways that lady still has a life has a imagination, she can enjoy in her memory about when she was healthy,in some kind of meditation, and better she could change her mind now maybe she doesn't wanna die,we have to be in her place for crist sake


and don't tell me shes already death,now scientist have a different concept of being alive ,it seems that many declares of brain death had made many mistakes,

[jordonj]

We seem to have opposing views on the subjects of both mercy killing & death sentences for criminals. I agree with mercy killing but not with the death sentence.

I am of the same viewpoint...here's another interesting contradiction:

George Bush (I'm just stating a fact without an opinion, so you can put the marmalade away mods), while he was governor of Texas, changed the law and streamlined the Death Penalty process...there were more executions under his watch than any other time in Texas's history.  And we are all aware of his involvement in this case...

I do agree that it is interesting...