F-15 Eagle from I3D

[Whitey]

We're not all into payware here.  Unlike some other places.

I like the look of the Lago F-16, but there is no way in hell I would buy it.  $25!?  That's about

[Boaz Shachar]

I think you guys are forgetting something.
when you buy corn, you pay the farmer for the fuel, seeds, water, fertilizer (etc) that he spent his money on, so that you could eat his wonderful corn.

when a modeler spends hundreds of hours surfing the net for info, designing his models, while watching his electric and phone bill rocket, he deserves something in return.

I have never bought a payware model (can't afford it) but it costs so much because of the time and money put into it. getting real sounds means going out and recording them, getting real dynamics means going out and finding the pilots, and getting the accurate shape and paint means finding those high quality 3-views and taking high quality pictures of the real thing.

When you buy FS you buy a platform, a platform for running future aircraft and sceneries. It is by no means a "finished product", that's the beauty of FS, you have an endless amount of posibilities. A product costs 25$ because that's what the modeler needs to cover his costs and makes some extra cash. Back in the days of FS-95 models were simple, so payware was out of the question, but nowadays we want all moving surfaces, full panel, custom gauges, working VC and virtual cabin, compressing spinning tilting and coffee making wheels, we want it all. Getting all that takes time and money.

you don't get your corn for free, don't expect high quality aircraft to be free either.

Boaz (IAFpilot03)

[JR_Afella]

Hey guys,
 It all basically comes down to choice really. The way we're working things is, stuff we can get info on, we're going to go all out to model it as accurately as we can. We buy AF TechManuals and Naval NATOPs manuals, buy NASA flight engineering data books on the aircraft, engine manuals, and other aids to help us model things accurately. With the F-15 and F-18 we're lucky, as I am currently in an F-15 squadron, and used to be stationed with an F18 squadron, so pilot resources are easier to come by there. But for aircraft we feel we can't deliver that kind of accuracy, I have no problem at all releasing them freeware (like the B-1 and B-2.
The T-37 was originally intended for a totally different group, but other users choose, then they're totally welcome to buy it. Same goes for the other models like the F-15. So yeah, the returns may be small, because we all put an extraordinary amount of work trying to get these payware things right.

Appreciate the feedback though! It's kewl to get an idea of how the masses think.

Jamal

[Whitey]

Boaz:  I'm going to disagree again.

[Boaz Shachar]

well, ur more than welcome to disagree with me.

the DSB EF is wonderful, but is it really comparable to the Lago F-16? did u get manuals and a wonderful VC? no. I'm not putting DSB down, I absolutely love their aircraft, but it's not payware, and some parts of it just aren't payware quality. the Rafale released by Gmaxflight is amazing, it's probably the only reason I didn't get the F-16, its quality is unmatched even in some payware, and it's free! the F-50 is wonderful, and it too is better than most payware, again, these are just a few out of the many freeware released out there. I'm not saying u can't find high quality freeware, I'm just saying that the people who make these models release them for free only because they believe in freeware, it's just idealism. I paint what people ask me to paint and charge nothing, because a harty "thank you" is all I need. (and because life in a socialist community means I'm not allowed to make money, but that's a different story)

IAFpilot

[john_J]

I would like to add one thought. I think the amount of free publicity PW groups are getting here is just wrong. They get a lot of benefit from these images being posted everywhere, we're surrounded by what's effectively a commercial, and SimV loses the money they could have charged from these groups. I think it's time to lock out advertisers, if you want to post a preview, post it in a "payware preview" forum.

[HABU]

There is a distinct difference between the type of quality that I3D produce and a 'one man band' like myself produce (I was the author of the F15C and E models).

When I3D produce their F15 it will have been thoroughly researched by the authors, my F-15s were not researched that much at all really, plus parts of the aircraft are shaped wrong, yet it is fun to fly and handles quite well even though the flight model is probably not quite as real as it gets. The F15 pair were completed within a couple of months with no virtual cockpit as a test specimen for FSDS2.

With the time spent by I3D on full poper research they have every right to ask for some kind of remuneration.

And at the end of the day, the choice is yours - how much detail do you want. Do you want to fly a poor reproduction or the most accurate and best? If you simulated a car would you want it to handle like a ferarri or a lorry?

[wolf8218]

well..
ok
if it is 5-10 dollars i will get it..
but any more will be over doing it and i will not buy it.
i dont really give a care about the manuals or whatever extra stuff your putting into it
this post should have really been made in the PAYWARE forums

[Oz]

yep, how topics change..
Anyways now that we're talkin bout it ill have my say. Payware designers are great designers, and their planes are great. But after they notice they can make money off of what we call a hobby they throw a bit more effort into it. Corn helps you survive, this is soemthing you see on a monitor. And something that isnt real. It is as close as it gets to flying a real one...or does it? There is no way to know that is how the real plane flies..unless a real pilot who flies it beta tests it. Still, i dont hate payware designers - i hate the fact that while some throw so much effort and time into something freeware, payware designers do it for the money. Its not to give something to the FS community. Its for money. This is now a business and i think thats wrong. This used to be a game where add-ons were just there to keep you flying. yeah payware designers work hard and so do many freeware ones. payware designers put a whole bunch of effort into their project for money, just like any real job where you wanna be promoted. And as for the sounds....i suppose you can also see any movie or documentary with the plane in it and record the sounds. I did it before. As said, it is your choice, buy it or not. But we have the right to comment and say our opinion and i hope no one here says otherwise. Now back on topic, the F-15 looks good and the pic is pretty nice.

[MightyFin]

That is a fantastic looking F-15 there...looking very nice already!

Looking through the various replies in this thread have definitely shown the difference in how people view FS Add Ons.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and this one is mine...

Freeware aircraft exist because very talented and generous designers work for endless hours creating the aircraft that will end up in our virtual hangers. The range in quality of Freeware aircraft varies considerably and some designers research their projects extremely well and make some really good aircraft.

HABU - Your F-15C and E (from Lakenheath) aircraft remain in use in my Flightsim to this day because they are really excellent models - I actually consider them superior to the other one available but that is a different story.

Payware is a completely different subject matter. Designers are entitled to some sort of reward for their efforts and this is fair enough. If I3D are going to make an aircraft with all of the kit that is in the list below then it will sure be an aircraft that I will consider worth purchasing. This product is aimed at a particular niche and obviously will not appeal to everyone.

The problem I have had with Payware is with the difference between 2 products from a "certain" company. The first was a Tornado which appealed to me as I have a lot of knowledge of this particular jet. I was deeply unimpressed with this aircraft, a really poor showing from the company who promised it often to be the most realistic version ever. Unfortunately the HUD was wrong, the Flight Dynamics were incorrect as were the loadouts combined with the lack of versions available. Considering the price of the aircraft, this is one example of payware which did not meet standards.

Then the same company released an F-16. This aircraft, with the full panel, massive range of quality textures and realistic loadouts, was simply brilliant and worth the price.

The fact is that there are freeware groups who release very nice aircraft for FS - DSB with the Typhoon and Tornado aircraft really look on form. Once the final versions of both these aircraft are released, then simply put, they will rival and exceed payware developers.

Finally, I will say this.. (and I pose this question to a few of you on this forum who are trying to "pressure" I3D into releasing this potentially fantastic F-15 as freeware.....) .. if DSB released their Typhoon  (in it's current state of course) as payware - would you still consider it the best FS2002 Fighter Jet? (the same goes for any other freeware fighter - such as the Japanese F-15) ...I doubt it....rather I think that this is simply an attempt at persuading Payware developers to releasing their work as freeware.

[AnGeL_MaKeR]

2 pages of text concerning issues, and hardly any raw screenshots as this forum was aptly named.....  ::)

[Wing Nut]

Is it just me or did everyone here totally miss out on the fact that we offended a person so bad that he won't come back to Simviation?  

Or does no one else care about that?

[AnGeL_MaKeR]

I agree... hopefully there will be no offenses taken and none given

[trevyuk2001]

Hi there again everybody.......

I didnt realise that posting up the shot would cause that much debate. I think this is a debate that could continue for many more pages, but i think in the end nothing would be gained.
We just wanted to show you all what was going on over at our 'workshops'.
The pic also shows one of the new skins that will be available in the B-1 patch that will be freeware, that wee are working on. This particular B-1 carries the 'Lets Roll' noseart.

[Crumbso]

Can you post some pics of the "tweet" please I like that aircraft.

As regarding all this I also think you should heed the saying SHUT THE HELL UP.

Stop spouting off on these offensive and sometimes arragont long whinded replys. You can't write something like "Your utterly wrong and stupid for being a payware designer, but thats my opinion."

BLOODY HELL  :-X :-/