My most interesting flight so far

[C]

Blimey! That is what one could consider "close". Just as well it was high wing, as you didn't get to see the damage - which I'm not sure would have been a good thing!

[TSC.]

As others have said Sean, glad to see you back in one piece & able to post about the experience, things could have been a lot worse, could've been a dark day at SimV.

As it is, I'm glad to be able to offer you yet another virtual beer to be on your way with.

[whitewolf]

Never saw anything like that before!Glad you had a safe landing!

[beaky]

You said, "darn good thing Bob immediately started working that rudder for directional control and didn't move the yoke much, or... (double-shudder)". Have you given though to what your reactions would have been if you had been on your own?


 

I've been trying not to.

I'm not sure exactly what I'd do... but I know I wouldn't have given up. First thing I'd do is ease off on all inputs and see what the plane had in mind, for a moment... which he did, as soon as he leveled the wings out of the turn. That was key- getting out of that turn right away.

 Having no idea that the wing was the problem, Bob did apply some aileron input to change heading back to the field, but he didn't make the common mistake of trying to steer the plane like a car when there was a yawing tendency causing the plane to also lean to one side.


I'm guessing his instinct was to do what one might do whenever any plane seems unstable in roll or yaw: hold the yoke for airspeed but turn mostly with rudder, just as you would when flying at MCA.
But at the time, he really couldn't really say what he was thinking; he just sort of flew it as it seemed to "want" him to.

Maybe the plane could have been banked quite a bit safely with the panel missing, but I doubt it...a lot of air must have still been flowing in the normal way over the top (or we'd have probably spun in right away), but there was no doubt lots of turbulence due to the "new configuration"... could have blanked out the aileron on that side... but  who knows?

[Hagar]

I think you were incredibly lucky to get away with it Sean. You mentioned that the fabric had been renewed 'fairly recently'. I would be very interested to know what caused the complete panel to strip away like that. There must be hundreds of fabric covered light aircraft flying safely every day. I've never come across anything like it happening during a lifetime in the business.

One thing crossed my mind that doesn't bear thinking about. If the worst had happened & you'd spun in - would the true cause ever have been discovered?

[Wii]

Now what?
That's pretty incredible.

[TSC.]

One thing crossed my mind that doesn't bear thinking about. If the worst had happened & you'd spun in - would the true cause ever have been discovered?

Quite possible Doug, without being morbid, I imagine that there would be an area with a lot of debris at the crash site, but a single piece of fabric from the wing quite some distance away.

TSC.

[Omag 2.0]

You'd thing that such an important part of the wing would be secured beyond any doubt, but from what I see, it was held down by those strips? That will probably give the one who fixed the panel a real scare too, not to mention the questions that will probably asked. Are these accidents investigated by officials like the FAA too?

[beaky]

One thing crossed my mind that doesn't bear thinking about. If the worst had happened & you'd spun in - would the true cause ever have been discovered?

Quite possible Doug, without being morbid, I imagine that there would be an area with a lot of debris at the crash site, but a single piece of fabric from the wing quite some distance away.

TSC.

Bob offered me a lift to the bus stop, and the first thing I said as I got in his car was "let's go find that piece of fabric!"
We didn't, though... some farmer has probably already made a tractor seat cover  or something out of it by now.

[beaky]

You'd thing that such an important part of the wing would be secured beyond any doubt, but from what I see, it was held down by those strips? That will probably give the one who fixed the panel a real scare too, not to mention the questions that will probably asked. Are these accidents investigated by officials like the FAA too?

The construction, as far as I can tell, was done the legal way- those staple-like clips hold the skin on; the tape just reinforces the rows of holes that the clips pass through.
I can't pass judgement-yet- on the quality of the work (and it may not have been a repair, but simply part of a total re-covering of the wins, which was done at least once on this plane), and as Hagar points out, there is a precedent for these clips coming loose.

I don't know if a report needs to be filed, and I hope to hear from Bob about that soon. Since there was no accident (thank you, Personal Angel!), it may not require a report.
 But any subsequent repair will have to be accompanied by the correct forms, which I believe must include mention of the cause of the damage, before the plane can be certified airworthy again.
Naturally, the entire community of 120/140 owners needs to be made aware, and I have not just mentioned it here.

[beaky]

One thing crossed my mind that doesn't bear thinking about. If the worst had happened & you'd spun in - would the true cause ever have been discovered?

A savvy investigator would probably know the difference between skin torn off by a crash and skin that tore loose on its own (or whatever the hell happened)... provided the entire wreck wasn't consumed by fire first.

And yes, there would be a telltale piece of fabric, possibly with no damage other than the blown-out clip holes,  some distance away, even if the plane was reduced to ashes and puddles of aluminum (a pleasant thought, I know)... but someone might easily deduce from that that one of us overstressed it and broke a wing.
Or something.

At any rate, I know I'm lucky- last night I immediately A) got a little drunk and B) bought a lottery ticket.

[Hagar]

The construction, as far as I can tell, was done the legal way- those staple-like clips hold the skin on; the tape just reinforces the rows of holes that the clips pass through.
I can't pass judgement-yet- on the quality of the work (and it may not have been a repair, but simply part of a total re-covering of the wins, which was done at least once on this plane), and as Hagar points out, there is a precedent for these clips coming loose.

If the wing had been covered properly this should not have been possible. I don't like jumping to conclusions but from your photos the missing 'panel' looks completely separate. It ripped off clean as a whistle right behind the main spar without marking the paint underneath. That doesn't look right to me, even if it was a repair. If the wing is covered in two pieces, both top & bottom surfaces should overhang the leading edge by a minimum amount & be secured with special adhesive. The retaining clips are not there to hold the covering on but to prevent 'ballooning' of the fabric & as a safety measure in case of a tear in the covering.

This will give some idea of how it's done.  http://members.shaw.ca/flightlines/rebuild_wing_cover.htm

PS. Do you have any more photos, especially showing the leading edge?

[Brett_Henderson]

I'm kind of interested what your friends in Poplar Grove have to say. I get the impression they know these planes pretty well..

[C]

I don't know if a report needs to be filed, and I hope to hear from Bob about that soon. Since there was no accident (thank you, Personal Angel!), it may not require a report.
 But any subsequent repair will have to be accompanied by the correct forms, which I believe must include mention of the cause of the damage, before the plane can be certified airworthy again.
Naturally, the entire community of 120/140 owners needs to be made aware, and I have not just mentioned it here.

Certainly my initial impression would be that a report of some type would need to be submitted; safe landing aside a rather large piece of aeroplane landed independently of the rest of the airframe, and you don't really know where it ended up (worst case it could have landed on someone or their property).

Interesting, although not unexpected, that it happened in a (relatively, 45*-55* AoB) steep turn, presumably the stage of the flight when the wing would have been working its hardest.

[Omag 2.0]

The construction, as far as I can tell, was done the legal way- those staple-like clips hold the skin on; the tape just reinforces the rows of holes that the clips pass through.
I can't pass judgement-yet- on the quality of the work (and it may not have been a repair, but simply part of a total re-covering of the wins, which was done at least once on this plane), and as Hagar points out, there is a precedent for these clips coming loose.

If the wing had been covered properly this should not have been possible. I don't like jumping to conclusions but from your photos the missing 'panel' looks completely separate. It ripped off clean as a whistle right behind the main spar without marking the paint underneath. That doesn't look right to me, even if it was a repair. If the wing is covered in two pieces, both top & bottom surfaces should overhang the leading edge by a minimum amount & be secured with special adhesive. The retaining clips are not there to hold the covering on but to prevent 'ballooning' of the fabric & as a safety measure in case of a tear in the covering.

This will give some idea of how it's done.