Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

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Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby Staiduk » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:26 am

'Lo all!

Woosh - been busy recently. I've been doing more work on my book; this time working on a section covering effective arrest and defense tactics for LEO's.
In addition; while doing research one of the police reps have asked me to prepare a training guide (and provide a class) on this topic to be presented at this year's BBQ (which I mention in the 'upcoming seminar' thread).

So anyway I've been doing a lot of study and practice on the subject recently. I've been teaching cops for about 10 years now (off and on); and have learned a great deal about what they have to deal with - this section deals strictly with their issues; so it is considerably different than the rest of the text to this point (which deals mainly with avoidance and escape - two things not available to cops.)

Last night I spent some time with my students preparing a rough draft. One had her little digital camera there and took a few photos as a rough draft of the final guide; so I thought you guys might be interested in taking a look at what I've been doing.

I apologize in advance for the quality of the pictures - lighting conditions at the school are horrible and her camera was a cheap one; so they didn't turn out too well. Still; I hope you find the pics interesting. :)

Background
One of the most difficult aspects of a policeman's job is that they have a very strict set of guidelines under which they can employ physical force in the performance of their duty. While I am all for strict guidelines - the stricter the better, IMO - the problem is that the majority of these guidelines serve as cover-ass procedures for the police staff and city government. In other words; while it is often a very thin line between an effective takedown and police brutality; the procedures are designed with a great deal of overlap; so that an LEO taking down a perpetrator may well find himself the target of an excessive use of force charge; or failing that a civil suit by the criminal's lawyer.

An added problem is that physical force training for police is in gerneral horribly substandard.

Why is this such a problem? Aside from the obvious answer; it means very simply that without adequate training; an LEO must resort to harsher, strength-based means to effect an arrest of a resisting perp. This is why you generally see the 'dogpile' of cops on a violent criminal. Using harsh measures is ugly, gritty, painful and emotional - in a situation like this it is very easy to cross the line between safe takedown and excessive use of force. If emotion runds rampant - remember; cops are people too - that could easily pass into the 'police brutality' range as well.

LEOs are generally dissuaded against using Martial Arts in their job and for good reason: the vast majority of MA training doesn't fit the very specific needs of cops in the field (although it has brilliant application in other aspects of their lives).

Ideally you want a series of effective tactics that allow a smooth, safe takedown of a suspect that also satisfies both legal and procedural requirements; as well as another very important consideration: gun retention.
People tend to forget this; but it's critical: cops are armed. A gun however is a tool of last resort; and can easily become a deadly complication if the suspect manages (and its easier than you think) to get it out of the LEO's hand or holster- cops do get shot with their own guns; and not infrequently either.

So any tactics must, in order, satisfy these four requirements (in order of importance):
1) Gun retention
2) Officer safety
3) Acceptable use of force
4) Safe takedown and arrest of suspect.

Great Wave
The Great Wave Self Defense training system was designed for real-world application by a wide demographic - in other words; virtually anyone can use it, it is effective, and is easy to learn. This is because I designed it around a kinesiological approach rather than a traditional one - rather than doing things 'because that's how you're supposed to do them'; Great Wave students learn to work in ways that directly manipulate the attacker in the most effective means possible.

I call Great Wave 'Applied Kinesiology'. Kinesiology is the science of Human movement - 'Applied kinesiology' is the science of moving Humans. ;D
Anyway; on to the pics: one example of how Great Wave can help LEO's in their job.
Last edited by Staiduk on Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby Staiduk » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:10 am

In this example; i'm going to discuss something called the Guardrail.

The physical side of martial arts don't work too well for cops - the geometry is all wrong. Cops need to get in, get down, get done, and get out and do it fast and safely. Sport-based MA's in particular aren't very good for that because the geometry of the moves are designed around a point-scoring tournament focus. Traditional arts suffer as well because their focus tends toward perfect demonstration of technique - again; geometry fails for LEO's. Here's what I mean:

Image Here's a fairly standard sport-MA front block. For what it's designed for it's excellent - but it is not designed for the fast rough-and-tumble of a forceful takedown.
I don't like blocks - never have. they're fine for the ring or kata; but they rely on directly stopping the force of the punch and do nothing to get the attacker's target out of the way. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a punch from a big guy blow right through a block and into the head behind.
I prefer redirection - thus the Guardrail.

The Guardrail
What does a highway guardrail do? It stops vehicles from flying off the road. But how does it do it? Does it stop a vehicle dead in its tracks? No; it redirects the force back along the line of the road; lessening the impact and - not coincidentally - the damage. The Guardrail works in exactly the same way.
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The Guardrail.

'Whoa -' people say - 'what's that? All you're doing is sticking your arm out!'
Yup - that's the beauty of it. Think about it for a second: if something is difficult; how easy will it be when done under the stress of a real-life encounter?
Last edited by Staiduk on Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby Theis » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:37 am

Nice!
i had no idea, that you trained police officers!
im going to practic in the danish police in week 9, so maybe i can learn them this? :D

Cheers Theis
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby Staiduk » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:48 am

Nice!
i had no idea, that you trained police officers!
im going to practic in the danish police in week 9, so maybe i can learn them this? :D


Not officially; I've just always had LEO's as students - either privately or in regular class. :)
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby Mynameisnemo » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:14 am

Very nicely explained and nice pics of how it all comes together,

From the looks of it you are incorporating some small part of Karate and ju-jit-su aswell which i have both taken part in and enjoyed,

Nemo...........*goes and dusts off an old cirtificate*........
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby beaky » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:54 am

That's good work- the more efficient MA tactics police officers practice, the better...once you distill out the fancier stuff, there's plenty  in the traditional lexicon for them to use. Safer for them, and safer for those they have to subdue. And of course the most valuable lesson one can learn about fighting in any good MA class is: relax. Don't get angry... just focus. Let "BDU" get all red-faced and unfocused; save your energy for the task at hand, and get it over with quickly.
I recognize some of the moves shown  from my time at Mr. Lee's "Shaolin temple": we used to do a blocking drill called Plum Flower Fist- very simple, easy moves that are very effective at deflecting the energy of blows when applied correctly. All very limited arm movements, from the center, from the hip.
The takedown is similar to what they called One Hit Self Defense: there are two moves that don't involve hitting; one was to step inside after the block, hip check the guy, and throw him, but that's not a good plan for a cop- mustn't risk getting tied up with the back to the opponent, and if Baby gets hurt in the throw, that could  be trouble for the officer. The other involves tying up the arm more or less as you show, only usually ending with the "BDU"'s arm twisted up behind him... and going for the jaw like that could be done as a shoving motion to unbalance him., or, if necessary, it could be a finisher- but POs can't afford to have people biting their own tongues off- very messy in the back of the cruiser... ;D
It's all old, old stuff, still practiced because it works.
Still haven't gone back to see about starting up again (I know, I know), but this reminds me of how useful this stuff can be.
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit

Postby Delta_ » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:05 am

In the UK police are trained to blue belt in Aikido (or similar).  Which is 2 down from black.

I used to do Jiu Jitsu for quite a while and i knew a few police that were involved with that because it is much more brutal than Aikido.  It also gave them skills that they can't get from Aikedo.  It is one of the only full contact martial arts. ;)
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit

Postby beaky » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:29 pm

In the UK police are trained to blue belt in Aikido (or similar).  Which is 2 down from black.

I used to do Jiu Jitsu for quite a while and i knew a few police that were involved with that because it is much more brutal than Aikido.  It also gave them skills that they can't get from Aikedo.  It is one of the only full contact martial arts. ;)


Took an intro class in jiu jitsu once: very simple and effective. Settled on the trad. Chinese school, but not surprisingly many of the same techniques are part of thhe same very broad Shaolin thing... including the block/step inside/ palm to the chin thing. That's a real stunner, if you get in and out quickly enough. Doesn't hurt your hand ads much as a punch in the teeth, either.
There were a couple of NYPD officers at that j.j. school; they were quite advanced. I'm not sure what, if any, official hand-to-hand  fighting discipline they are taught, but in general (and yes I am generalizing here) the NYPD seems to use two techniques: either defusing a conflict with an easygoing diplomacy that could earn them a seat at the UN, or... every cop responding to a call empties their clip into anyone who looks at them funny. Maybe that's all that makes the news, I dunno...  I vividly recall hearing of an incident where a very agitated guy was blocking an intersection in Brooklyn, brandishing an ordinary claw hammer(and nothing else- he was only wearing shorts). Two officers responded, and they gunned him down. Can't help but think even one properly trained cop could get a hammer away from somebody... heck, I think I could do it.
Not maligning the NYPD, but they don't seem to be known for their martial arts prowess...  
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby Staiduk » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:58 am

Hello all - thanks for your kind replies. :)
A few comments if I might:

Nemo:
From the looks of it you are incorporating some small part of Karate and ju-jit-su aswell which i have both taken part in and enjoyed,

I've studied both karate and jiu-jitsu as well (also Judo and my primary art, Aikido) - they're both excellent arts that teach fun and valuable skills.
I hesitate however is saying something 'incorporates' another art for this reason: there are a lot of arts out there; and the primary way in which they differ is in training philosophy. What that means is basically there are only so many ways to move the body around; and only so many ways to deliver force. The difference lies in the training procedures, history, philosophy and focus of the arts in question. :)
I get 'you took that from kung-fu! or Karate!' etc. all the time - I didn't. Moves you see in Great Wave - for instance - have fundamental principles of movement in common with other arts; for the simple reason that they work. :)
When I first started teaching ASD (Aikido for Self Defense - what Great Wave started as) I made the mistake of trying to 'bring in' elements from other arts - the result was mushy movement and patched techniques. Once I saw where this was going; I sat down and really started to look at the kinesiological fundamentals upon which the techniques and movements were based - and built the techniques from there.
IOW; many of the techniques I teach may well be identical to movements found in other arts; because they all stem from the same firmly proven fundamentals. :)

Rotty:
And of course the most valuable lesson one can learn about fighting in any good MA class is: relax. Don't get angry... just focus. Let "BDU" get all red-faced and unfocused; save your energy for the task at hand, and get it over with quickly.

Exactly right - but I'm going to let the teacher come out for a second and ask for the corollary:
Why is relaxation so important? The answer is a lot larger than most people imagine. ;) ;D

Delta_:
In the UK police are trained to blue belt in Aikido (or similar).  Which is 2 down from black.

Interesting - I never heard that; I'll have to look into it. :) It must be a somewhat modified form of aikido - typically it takes between 8-10 years to get a black belt (5-6 for nikyu; the rank you mentioned.) Traditional aikido doesn't work on a belt system; students are white until they earn black. You've got me curious - I'll look into it. :)

I used to do Jiu Jitsu for quite a while and i knew a few police that were involved with that because it is much more brutal than Aikido.

I'll argue that point - strongly. Jiu Jitsu is an extremely effective art and adapts well to defensive situations; but it is most certainly not more 'brutal' than aikido. First; if an art is performed in brutal fashion; then it is being performed incorrectly. Second, the amount of damage one can deliver to an opponent is entirely dependant on the situation and practicioner; not the art.
Funny - one lovely warm summer evening in June in Colorado; I wound up comparing notes with three other artists: myself as an aikidoist, a Bagua practicioner, an American Kenpo student (and direct student of Rick Fowler) and a Jiu-jitsu teacher. (I was the lowest-level practicioner there with only 25 years.)  How the topic wandered around to limb destruction I'll never know, but before long we were happily discussing elbow smashes, dislocations, joint strikes, hyperextensions etc. A fun evening - the interesting bit came when the jiu-jitsu guy would say "We have an approach to that - we'll do something like this..." and everyone would go 'Ewww..' at the idea.  The Bagua guy would give his approach.... 'Eeww!' "Here's what it would look like form an aikido standpoint,' I said - 'Eeewww!!!' ;D The end result - other than really sore joints - was a deep appreciation for the potential destructiveness of any other art when applied with sufficient force. :)

Rotty:
I vividly recall hearing of an incident where a very agitated guy was blocking an intersection in Brooklyn, brandishing an ordinary claw hammer(and nothing else- he was only wearing shorts). Two officers responded, and they gunned him down. Can't help but think even one properly trained cop could get a hammer away from somebody... heck, I think I could do it.

Not to be blunt, but could you now? Given the choice between attempting to disarm a crazy guy with a claw hammer or taking him down from a distance; I know exactly which choice I'd take - and please keep in mind I've been dealing with the aftereffects of taking life for 13 years now. This is where the difference between the mat and real life comes into sharp focus - if the guy with the hammer was your teacher; sure, no problem - go get him. But he's not - he's a deranged individual who will kill you if you get within range. How good does your technique have to be before you are certain it can deal with insane strength and speed? In a situation like that; you can't take the chance - getting yourself hurt or killed not only takes a cop out of the equation it adds a whole new set of complications involving rescue and recovery. This is a situation that the sidearm was designed for. You're going to have to live with the concequences - but take him down at range.
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby beaky » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:24 pm


Not to be blunt, but could you now?

With another cop helping me, as was the case here... yes. I know  I could. One distracts, the other flanks; one immobilizes the arm, the other takes the weapon. Might have to hit the guy, but that beats killing him. Might get hit a little, but I used to work in construction; been hit with hammers numerous times. ;D  A hammer is an excellent weapon for a sneak attack, but not very menacing to me in a confrontational situation. I'd be more concerned about a pool cue, frankly.
I definitely see your point, but I just don't feel numerous shots from two guns was called for here. When deadly force from a distance  is the preferred doctrine in all situations where an officer might risk bodily harm, everybody suffers.  
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit.

Postby RHeite » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:42 am

With the Corps, we've got MCMAP.  Based off of various disciplines modified to suit the war-fighters need.

About 4 months ago I went to get my Grey belt (2nd Level) and most of it was un-armed takedowns and grappling.

You CAN effectivly remove a weapon such as a knife, hammer, crowbar, etc. from someone without harm to yourself - but the key word comes in - if you have recieved the training to.  I'm not sure how different police forces handle this training.  With the Corps, every recruit must achieve the tan belt to even graduate Boot Camp, and there is talk of the CMC requiring you to get your grey belt before you are promoted to Cpl.

As to deadly force...every situation is different. Different surroundings, different atmosphere, different individuals involved.  If you weren't there at the time, placed in the situation, you only have an opinon on what the correct action should have been.  When you come into a situation where you might have to take someones life, you revert to whatever training you have recieved.  Now its a little different on the military side...we don't exactly stop to ask them to please put the weapon down, but for police, I'm sure you all recieve training on non-leathal tech. and are taught the proper useage of deadly force.  Fact remains though, until you are put in that situation, you can't know WHAT you are going to do.
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Re: Doing nasty things for fun and profit

Postby Staiduk » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:23 am

[quote]In the UK police are trained to blue belt in Aikido (or similar).
Last edited by Staiduk on Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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