Identity crisis

[ChuckMajik]

Is it a Seafire II fitted with a tropical filter and clipped wings?

[ozzy72]

Steve-O wins the Clever Clogs award, it is indeed a Seafire II with the clipped wings (incredibly rare!) and the Vokes filter.
Well done that man
Oh and this photo was taken in '44 at a small refit base in France.

Ozzy

[HawkerTempest5]

When Mark first sent me this photo it was a real mystery! Seafire LF MkIIc with trop filter and invasion stripes. Shame I can't see it's code letters (other than the aircraft letter) and serial numbers as it would make a great subject for a model.

[Woodlouse2002]

But what about the helmet on the dude with his hands up... It certainly isn't british.

[HawkerTempest5]

But what about the helmet on the dude with his hands up... It certainly isn't british.

Maybe he's French? The chaps sitting on and holding the wing look like they have British Army helmets on and you can see at least four Spit IX's behind so it's certainly a British facility.
I should point out that this is the only picture of a IIc with a trop filter I've ever seen. And the fact that it's obviously being used in the European theater just deepens the mystery.

[ozzy72]

Roger I've been pondering this little mystery for a while, do you think it might be one of the ones built and allocated to N. Africa or the Malta campaign that didn't get delivered?
I think the lid on the guy in the foreground of the shot is French. Although my knowledge of French headgear is rather limited......

Mark

[Hagar]

The only FAA Squadron equipped with the Seafire IIc on the appropriate date appears to have been 807.
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/807.html

Aircraft

Fulmar I Sept 1940-April 1941
Fulmar II April 1941-June 1942
Sea Hurricane Nov 1941- Nov 1941
Seafire Ib June 1942 -Sept 1942
SeafireL.IIc June 1942 -Oct 1944
SeafireL.III June 1944 -end of WW2

the whole squadron took part in the South of France Operation Dragoon landings in HMS Hunter in August 1944, when the squadron inflicted considerable damage to locomotives and road transport.

[Woodlouse2002]

It's not a french lid, i'm quite sure of that. I'm thinking that it might be Italian. There would certainly be more need for a tropical filter in Italy.




Also the fact that this aircraft is a Seafire MkII with filter etc. Surely your going on the type of aircraft it is by the caption to the picture where ever you got it from? Therefore it could very easily be a mistake.

[ozzy72]

I doubt it, as the info comes from a friend who is an aircraft historian!!!
I think the helmet could be Dutch? Its not the Adrian (French) as that has a large strip front to back over the top... Hmm the helmet is proving more of a challenge than the plane
Hmm your ID makes sense Doug, but I'm trying to get more info out of my friend at the moment... Like Roger said, it could be an interesting project, now do Airfix make a Seafire II kit?

[Hagar]

How about a caption for that photo. Here's mine.

Don't shoot guys - I'll come quietly.

[Woodlouse2002]

I think the helmet could be Dutch? Its not the Adrian (French) as that has a large strip front to back over the top... Hmm the helmet is proving more of a challenge than the plane

If the infomation Hagar say's is true then that aircraft should be in the south of france. So a long way from Holland. What did the Vichy frech helmets look like? If its not that then i'm sticking with Italian.

[ozzy72]

The Adrian was used by both sides of the French and had its origins in WWI.
Could be one of the Dutch units that fought alongside the British, or it could be a capitulated Italian.... Hmm I really am flumoxed by this one....

Mark

[Hagar]

I missed the most important part that could explain the tropical filter & the helmet. Here it is in full.

Squadron detachments were lent to the Desert Air Force in Italy for several weeks in April 1944, then the whole squadron took part in the South of France Operation Dragoon landings in HMS Hunter in August 1944, when the squadron inflicted considerable damage to locomotives and road transport.

Airfix only do the 1/48th scale FR.47. You would have to modify a Spitfire. They do a Mk Vb. http://www.modernmodels.com/airfix001.htm

[ozzy72]

Ah mystery solved as to the kites ID, but the helmet still puzzles....
Oh and I've got the Seafire III model by Airfix thanks Hagar, I'm painting the parts ready for assembly at the moment

Ozzy

[ATI_7500]

Definately not italian.
http://www.italianfront.com/reproheadgrPg2.htm

German helmets looked similar to this one,but only the ones from the eastern side after WW2.