"Fighter 25"

[Kleen Harry]

No civil, SB! Military only!  ;D

"Lock and load!"  ;D

Nah, nah nah, naaaaaaah nah! John is suffering from envy... again! I won't say which part it is.  ;D

Hey, John!  :P

Now go have a few beers and get yourself mellow!  ;D

[chrism7262]

haha i think this is an awesome composite Don!!

[john_uk]

No civil, SB! Military only!  ;D

"Lock and load!"  ;D

Nah, nah nah, naaaaaaah nah! John is suffering from envy... again! I won't say which part it is.  ;D

Hey, John!  :P

Now go have a few beers and get yourself mellow!  ;D

haha, already had a few don i am mellow after my weekend

and SB shhhh or be attacked by my army of ninja, SBS badgers!!

[Kleen Harry]

Thanks, Chris!  :)

John is a good guy and the one edit I've seen by him was perfect! He just gets a wild hair now and then. That's John. It's a package deal!  ;D

As long as we keep John in beer, the world is reasonably safe!  ;D

[NDSP]

I take that as a compliment, Spitfire Boy!  ;)

Nick and John:

There are four basic ways of depicting a moving object:

1) Subject sharp, background sharp.

2) Subject sharp, background blurred.

3) Subject blurred, background blurred.

4) Subject blurred, background sharp.

This is a "subject sharp, background blurred". I put a lot of blur on the background, to suggest motion, and only a little blur on the subject. That's why it's not, "blended". It isn't supposed to "blend". In "Layne Suhr", the subject is also sharp and the background blurred, although there it's most noticeable in the foreground.  ;)

I can't help but notice that whenever I start to get too many compliments on images that those who have otherwise been silent tend to come out of the woodwork with critique. Just can't stand it, eh?  ;D

Lets face it, your not the greatest editor thats ever lived.

How many times have you or any other people told me that the plane doesn't blend with the background, and I have tried to fix the problem the next time? Not every time did I succeed, but I was always trying to please. Now you tell me this, did I ever respond to your critique by saying you were just jealous?

Don, the magic that used to be in every edit you did is just plain gone. I don't know what happened, but it seems like all the creativity has just gone out the roof. Military jet flying through a tunnel, great idea. The only problem is that a great idea needs a great edit. This edit looks like you just thought that the idea of the shot was enough to impress everyone, which sadly enough it did, even though this looks like you made it in 2-3 minutes.

Telling people that they are jealous just because they are pointing something out that happens to be off in your edit is just, well, obnoxious.

I'm sorry to say it, but thats the way I feel.


Nick

[Kleen Harry]

It's ok that you feel that way, Nick, and you expressed your feelings clearly and in an appropriate manner in your last post. Hats off to you for that, M8!  ;)

Don't blame me for your editing difficulties, M8. What's yours is yours, not mine. I've tried to be helpful to you, even sending you a background image.

When I arrived here the comments that you were getting from members was that you weren't applying the suggestions they had offered. I started out fresh, encouraging you and offering suggestions. There was no history between us. Now I have reached the point that those members were at when I arrived. The only constant in all of this is you, M8!

With all due respect, Nick, what in your edits would I have to be jealous about?

Is the glass half full or half empty? If you are looking for fullness, you'll see fullness. If you are looking for emptiness, you'll see emptiness. Maybe it's more about what you bring to the image than the image istself.

I really resent your comment about how much time I spent on the image. I was making it specifically for fighter25 and I would not disrespect him by spending two or three minutes making an image that was intended as a gift for him. Just so that you have some idea, here's some of what I did:

1) I thought about how I could make something unique for fighter25. I didn't just want to give him "the same old thing".

2) I wanted to use a plane that I hadn't used recently in images that I've made for others. Fighter25 is a unique individual and is deserving of a unique image which reflects that.

3) I came up with the tunnel idea which I think is quite creative.

4) I logged in at an image site and went through 19 pages of tunnel images to find one's that looked like they might work. Several of them were quite large, the largest being 2.71 MB. Just downloading them took quite a while because I'm on dialup.

5) I chose the best background, cropped it and edited it.

6) I had to go back into FSX and fly three times in order to make a capture that I thought looked right. I made and cut out two captures which I didn't think were right so I went back and did it all over again a third time.

7) I put a lot of work into the plane until I thought it looked OK. Have you ever tried to bring out detail on a flat black plane? The entire aircraft is designed so that it's NOT visible. Do you think that the lighting on the plane matched the color of the tunnel lights when I made the capture of the plane? I had to work to bring out some detail, with black and various shades of gray, so that the plane wouldn't look like a black blob or just a shilouette.

No, Nick, I didn't do it in two or three minutes. I put myself into it 100% because it was intended as a gift to someone. I wasn't just making it for myself. Perhaps if you had more editing experience you would realize that for yourself.

I have seen you repeatedly make harsh, negative comments about images with which I did not see anything wrong. There does not appear to be any logic to it. My conclusion is that you feel that the good work of others somehow diminishes you personally.

I might add that I go out of my way to handle you with kid gloves as it is clear that you feel beaten up by even the mildest of comments. You, on the other hand, seem to think it quite appropropriate to express your distaste for the images of others in no uncertain terms. Which is it, Nick? Are you sensitive or are you hard? You seem to have two standards; one for how you want to be treated and another for how you choose to treat others.

Yes, I think that you are envious. I'm not at all sorry. That's how I feel. It happens often enough in the world that we have found it necessary to make a word for it; envy. It's not against the law. No one is going to arrest you for it. I don't care for what seems to be springing from it but it isn't going to ruin my day!  ;)

[Bird-Nerd]

Don't see what the deal is, I do that in real life all the time for fun  ;D

[spitfire boy]

[quote][quote]No civil, SB! Military only!

[Kleen Harry]

"Another great composite!"

"WOOOOOOW  now that's something else!"

"I love it!"

"HECK YEAH! That is amazing! Thanks Harry!"

"Lol very cool"

"haha i think this is an awesome composite Don!!"

Then we have...

"It just doesn't seem like it was blended that well and the aircraft looks more like a sticker posted on a picture rather than being a part of the picture."

"Lets face it, your not the greatest editor thats ever lived."

"This edit looks like you just thought that the idea of the shot was enough to impress everyone, which sadly enough it did, even though this looks like you made it in 2-3 minutes."

Trying to help me to improve??? Get real, SB! There's nothing that virtuous here! That ain't mother's milk, M8, that's venom, pure and simple!

"Lets face it, your not the greatest editor thats ever lived. " Hey, that's REALLY helped me to improve! Now what does that have to do with anything? Gee, and all along I've really thought that I was the greatest editor that's ever lived... NOT! Don't even TRY to put lipstick on that pig, SB!

"This edit looks like you just thought that the idea of the shot was enough to impress everyone, which sadly enough it did..." Yeah, all of the guys who had something nice to say are idiots! They were "impressed", which is quite "sad"! Only Nick has the insight to not be taken in by my shoddy attempt to deceive! Clever boy!

"...even though this looks like you made it in 2-3 minutes." Hey, I put a lot time and effort into the image for the express purpose of making a gift for fighter25! Nick is telling the recipient of that gift that I only put 2-3 minutes of work into it? I beg your pardon! That's an insult to me AND an insult to fighter25! What does it say when you give someone a gift which has been slapped together in 2-3 minutes? It says that you don't think that the recipient of the gift is worth much of your time and effort! To imply that is rude and inconsiderate in the extreme!

No, SB, don't even try to lay this on me, M8! Don't even try to tell me that this wonderful and considerate person is trying to help me and that I should be thankful for it! Look at what was actually said in THIS particular instance. It is THIS instance which we are discussing. You want to go back in time and do an analysis? Fine, we can do that... later! FIRST let's deal with the issue at hand, THEN we can deal with whatever else you want to deal with. Don't bother attempting to cloud the issue with a bunch of tangential stuff. You want to comment on the situation? Fine then, comment on the situation but don't try to lead things off into what is wrong with Kleen Harry's psychological profile going back in time. Stick to the issue! We can deal with EVERYONE'S past history... LATER!

[Kleen Harry]

What you said in your last post is knowingly or unknowingly manipulative, SB. You are trying to change the subject from what NICK said in THIS thread to what KLEEN HARRY said in some OTHER thread. That is intellectually dishonest. It serves well to take the heat off of Nick by trying to put the heat on Kleen Harry instead.

That ain't gonna happen, M8! The focus is going to stay right where it is!

Let us not fail to notice that this thread has essentially been hijacked. The focus is no longer on the image, which received a lot of nice comments. The focus has been shifted to Nick. So, the envy boy has been successful in stealing the show by precipitating a discussion focused on him rather than on the posted image. I told you. He is envious. He can't stand it when someone else gets praise or attention. Like a child, he would rather be in the spotlight getting negative attention than to be in the shadows getting positive attention. That's just plain sick!

[spitfire boy]

What you said in your last post is knowingly or unknowingly manipulative, SB. You are trying to change the subject from what NICK said in THIS thread to what KLEEN HARRY said in some OTHER thread. That is intellectually dishonest. It serves well to take the heat off of Nick by trying to put the heat on Kleen Harry instead.

That ain't gonna happen, M8! The focus is going to stay right where it is!

Let us not fail to notice that this thread has essentially been hijacked. The focus is no longer on the image, which received a lot of nice comments. The focus has been shifted to Nick. So, the envy boy has been successful in stealing the show by precipitating a discussion focused on him rather than on the posted image. I told you. He is envious. He can't stand it when someone else gets praise or attention. Like a child, he would rather be in the spotlight getting negative attention than to be in the shadows getting positive attention. That's just plain sick!

See, this is what I'm talking about.... I explicitly said I was on your side - trying to help you become more popular. You seem to think that anyone who even slightly disagreeas with you is to be trodden on. I also explicitly said that no offense was intended to anyone by my above post... and yet you seemed to find something offensive from nowhere - as if you were actively searching for something to be offended by (I am NOT saying you actually were - it just seems that way)

True, nick's comment was out of line. But so were a handful of yours;

"what in your edits would I have to be jealous about?"

It was actually, looking back at this thread, you that shifted the attention onto nick in the first place. reading nick's post makes you realize that he was talking about you, not himself.

It seems you interpret malicious meaning in places where there is none - along with where there is perhaps some nastiness (sorry nick, your first comment was uncalled for)....

Read my post again. Where in there did I explicitly insult you, as opposed to advising you what is wrong and attempting to help rectify it? The answer is nowhere.

The problem is not entirely one side or the other of this argument. There have been nasty comments both ways. I am neutral in this, trying to end the argument. Is that an unjust cause?

You actually oppose yourself in your last post - the focus was originally on you, then it shifted to nick, and you thought that unfair. Now it's come back to you again, and you still dislike the situation. If nick is being childish, might not it be best to ignore him.

Please, I implore you, just listen to me and take in what I have to say. Do not automatically assume that someone commenting on the argument is taking sides. I'm not.

P.S. Out of the three comments you listed in your second-to-last post, two were nasty, both were from nick. let's take him out of the equation fo a moment. The other comment is simply advising you how it might be better.

Okay, nick was out of order. But the rest were simply trying to help - which is essentially what you ask for if you display shots on this site. If you aren't willing to accept that some people may not like your shots/edits absoloutely 100%, then you really ought not post them.

I wasn't try to 'lay anything on you' - this is a problem I've seen occur on several notable occasions. You automatically assume that anyone trying to point out a problem/area for improvement is threatening you. We really are not that spiteful round here - with a couple of exceptions on individual occasions.

Maybe you are trying to address one issue - but your attempts to address the problem highlight problems and issues that go back a long long way... and it would be easier for you to rectify the situation by taking my advice and simply lightening up a bit - which I think is the root cause of all this.

[john_uk]

Ha! I've got SAS bunny rabbits!

the SBS pwn the SAS 8 days a week!


oh and don, just becase some people are saying yeh awesome work,. because they are unable to make any useful critisicsm, and just repeatadly say yeh awesome, OMFG thats the best ever. frankly they are the poeple who spam this board with half arsed edits and then its the same group saying omfg thats awesome. as soon as something useful is said then we get our heads bitten off by you lot because we are not sticking our noses in your bottom and going "would you like it browner sir?"

so accept the critiscism harry, and read what people are putting carefully, ive said it before and ive said it again. we are not all going to brown nose you, quality not quantity, it seems that you are going for quantity instead of quality!

[spitfire boy]

Ha! I've got SAS bunny rabbits!

the SBS pwn the SAS 8 days a week!


oh and don, just becase some people are saying yeh awesome work,. because they are unable to make any useful critisicsm, and just repeatadly say yeh awesome, OMFG thats the best ever. frankly they are the poeple who spam this board with half arsed edits and then its the same group saying omfg thats awesome. as soon as something useful is said then we get our heads bitten off by you lot because we are not sticking our noses in your bottom and going "would you like it browner sir?"

so accept the critiscism harry, and read what people are putting carefully, ive said it before and ive said it again. we are not all going to brown nose you, quality not quantity, it seems that you are going for quantity instead of quality!

Both of you are right and both of you are wrong;

Malicious comments are bad
Misinterpreting constructive criticism as malicious comments is bad
Arguments are bad.

Now either of you tell me any part of the above is untrue...

[NDSP]

"Another great composite!"

"WOOOOOOW  now that's something else!"

"I love it!"

"HECK YEAH! That is amazing! Thanks Harry!"

"Lol very cool"

"haha i think this is an awesome composite Don!!"

Then we have...

"It just doesn't seem like it was blended that well and the aircraft looks more like a sticker posted on a picture rather than being a part of the picture."

"Lets face it, your not the greatest editor thats ever lived."

"This edit looks like you just thought that the idea of the shot was enough to impress everyone, which sadly enough it did, even though this looks like you made it in 2-3 minutes."

Trying to help me to improve??? Get real, SB! There's nothing that virtuous here! That ain't mother's milk, M8, that's venom, pure and simple!

"Lets face it, your not the greatest editor thats ever lived. " Hey, that's REALLY helped me to improve! Now what does that have to do with anything? Gee, and all along I've really thought that I was the greatest editor that's ever lived... NOT! Don't even TRY to put lipstick on that pig, SB!

"This edit looks like you just thought that the idea of the shot was enough to impress everyone, which sadly enough it did..." Yeah, all of the guys who had something nice to say are idiots! They were "impressed", which is quite "sad"! Only Nick has the insight to not be taken in by my shoddy attempt to deceive! Clever boy!

"...even though this looks like you made it in 2-3 minutes." Hey, I put a lot time and effort into the image for the express purpose of making a gift for fighter25! Nick is telling the recipient of that gift that I only put 2-3 minutes of work into it? I beg your pardon! That's an insult to me AND an insult to fighter25! What does it say when you give someone a gift which has been slapped together in 2-3 minutes? It says that you don't think that the recipient of the gift is worth much of your time and effort! To imply that is rude and inconsiderate in the extreme!

No, SB, don't even try to lay this on me, M8! Don't even try to tell me that this wonderful and considerate person is trying to help me and that I should be thankful for it! Look at what was actually said in THIS particular instance. It is THIS instance which we are discussing. You want to go back in time and do an analysis? Fine, we can do that... later! FIRST let's deal with the issue at hand, THEN we can deal with whatever else you want to deal with. Don't bother attempting to cloud the issue with a bunch of tangential stuff. You want to comment on the situation? Fine then, comment on the situation but don't try to lead things off into what is wrong with Kleen Harry's psychological profile going back in time. Stick to the issue! We can deal with EVERYONE'S past history... LATER!

This is what happened. I said I didn't like the edit like the edit because it wasn't blended well, john gave examples of how it could have been blended better, and then you tell us both that we're just jealous. Come on! All the comments you get seem to be going to your head. And I mean that. Just because everyone else likes it doesn't mean everyone on the planet has too. If you put so much effort into getting the picture and cropping and getting the right angle, then why didn't you put more effort into blending it? Honestly I know your capable of more than this edit, and don't say thats way too offensive or anything like that because you have already called all of my hard work shot. I'm sorry if I offended you or fighter25 or both. I never called anyone less intelligent than anyone else on the forums, all I said was that the concept of the edit impressed everyone to the point where it seems as if the actual picture wasn't as important. I'll say it now, if that isn't the case then I'm sorry. By saying we are just jealous because we said we didn't enjoy looking at your edit as much more or less implies that you may think you are over or better than us in some way. It almost feels as if you have some sort of 'star-power' whereas you can say whatever you want, but everyone knows you supposedly mean well, so no one really cares, yet I can something as simple as "it doesn't blend well, you could have put some more effort into the blending, and mentioning something about being called jealous" and I get a 4 paragraph lecture

For the sake of it

You are straight out a shoddy person to call me and envious child on a public forum, and trying to make me the bad guy for telling you I don't like your edit. Do you know how many times I've been told people don't like my edit? Many times I have considered quitting editing because of it. This is what I'm talking about Harry! I open my mouth once, and you respond to it like all the problems are invisible, and your to good to be taking advice from me and John. I swear on my great-grandmothers grave and I went into this thread, saw the edit, skipped over the comments and went down to reply, and then entered in my reply. I didn't care about no God-Da.mn reply number! When I'm told that I'm just jealous, what do I do? I come out and tell what I feel is the truth. If you look again, John also comments on many of the same topics I did. I'm tired of this bull. Go ahead, say what you want about this reply, get the whole forum against me yet again. Its only gonna be a familiar feeling

[Kleen Harry]

I'm not wasting any more time with any of you and your ridiclous, illogical arguments. My work speaks for itself. If you can do better, do it!

Nick, stop whining. You whine like you are an injured innocent but you get real tough when making comments about other's work. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

I'm done. You want to continue this thread? It's yours. I have images to make. Catch me, if you can.