Dueling

[Craig.]

Russian pilots are the best

Sorry but that isnt the case. There are few pilots in Russia who can match up with the US, or British pilots.

Last time i checked russia had 2000 Su-27's in service and storage, 'capable active'.

I certainly wouldnt trust alot of the planes they have. many accidents have been reported due to a lack of funding and supplies. I'd hate to think how many havent been reported.

The Russian military especially its airforce isnt the technological juggernaut it once was. They dont have the money or the supplys they once did. The biggest competitors today are mainly from western europe.

[|| Andy ||]

I certainly wouldnt trust alot of the planes they have. many accidents have been reported due to a lack of funding and supplies. I'd hate to think how many havent been reported.

U didnt read what i said, i said 'capable active'
That didnt mean there in good condis..
Just ment the shear size could wipe out a whole airforce of F-15's or F-22's

The Russian military especially its airforce isnt the technological juggernaut it once was. They dont have the money or the supplys they once did. The biggest competitors today are mainly from western europe.

Cough?

Su-47?
Su-37?
Su-52?
MiG-AT?

Hmmmm ure lacking some rescources...

[Craig.]

I'm sorry where are they? on paper. Still testing i have barely seen anything of these planes. The Russians are never one to back away from a good airshow showdown with their best. The SU47 is nothing more than a test aircraft. I would like a link to your Su52 as no searches i have done have turned up anything. And the Mig At is nothing but a trainer/light attack aircraft much like the Hawk.

[|| Andy ||]

yes the MiG-AT is and so is the Su-52..
Just answering to ure post about russia having no money... the country might not, but the military have.
All invested in military units.

The Su-52 was announced in a issue of Airforces monthly back about a year ago.
It had been planned for a few years.


**And ive just found out that the Su-52 proccess has been stopped, because of lack of resources..**

http://home.tiscali.nl/~ti019223/files/ ... nglish.pdf

Shame was looking forward to that A/C

Right,
Onto the Su-47.

It may only be a Test bed,
But it shows that russia are not afriad of trying out new designs.
And did worry the U.S when it flew its first test trial back in 2001.


The designation S-37 was the prototype
The designation Su-47 was for the russian airforce

So they still might have plans for the Su-47.
-------------
SU-37..
Now isnt that the first plane to use Thrust Vectoring in front of the public
1992 the prototype plans were issued..

i know in 1972 i dink...
McDonalld Douglas submitted plans for the F-15 Active... but in 96 the Nasa Dryden actually tested it didnt they?
The F-15 Active in my eyes failed misrably..

--
I dont have anything realy against the F-15...
Just the U.S in genral lol... joke..

[Craig.]

The F-15 active was never planned as a military plane. It is/ was a test bed for designing new surfaces to help a plane recover from a catastrophic failure of the wings/rudders after the case of the F15 landing with one less wing. The pilots of the the F15 active saw its improved mobility and suggested it for Airforce service. It was not taken that seriously as the F-22 was well underway and thus dropped. The Russians have poured all their money into the military yes, however they dont even have the money to do that anymore. Thats why these new aircraft never make it past test stages or get cancelled. Hell yes the Beikrut was an out there design, it was also very manouverable, and had they taken it further then maybe it wouldn't be just another failure. The Russians have had many great ideas, and the fact the Mig 29 in its day was the most agile aircraft anyone had ever seen prooves that. But nothing from the past can even hope to compete against the new next gen fighters.

[|| Andy ||]

The Russians have poured all their money into the military yes, however they dont even have the money to do that anymore. Thats why these new aircraft never make it past test stages or get cancelled.

I Agree

Hell yes the Beikrut was an out there design, it was also very manouverable

Past tense...
It still is.. and is alot better than the euro****er were getting.. lol  ;D

The Russians have had many great ideas, and the fact the Mig 29 in its day was the most agile aircraft anyone had ever seen prooves that.

I know that already...  ;)

But nothing from the past can even hope to compete against the new next gen fighters.

Yes, very true.
But i dont regard Americas plans as Next Gen...
There more Upgrading the past..
No new ideas..

And since they havnt got anything to compete against the russians, this time around..
It doesnt seem like the U.S are going to ever going to make a new gen fighter, without that push from good old 'russia' lol..  


the U.S are still on 4th gen arnt they?
While russias proto berkut (golden eagle) was designed as a 5th gen, much like the viggen...


But i wish they wouldnt keep evolving...
I still like the Tonka.. i dunno how the hell there gonne keep the same airframes going for another 35 years..   :-/

[Mobius]

How can you not regard the F/A-22 as next gen?!?  It has the most advanced avionics in the world, it is the first stealthy fighter, and it is the first production fighter with thrust vectoring and supercruise.  If that's not next gen, I don't know what is.  When the F/A-22 and F-35 enter service, they will be replacing almost every other aircraft in service with the US today.  Those two are definately next-gen.

P.S. And yes, the F-15 does have a perfect A2A combat record.

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/f-15_eagle.pl

Look down under "F-15 Eagle Achievments"

Here she comes...

[|| Andy ||]

and it is the first production fighter with thrust vectoring and supercruise.

Cough...
Vectoring > >Eurofighter...<<

it is the first stealthy fighter

And ive heard things on the radar reports on the F-22
that it isnt 'that' stealthy... and can still be detected by radar..

P.S. And yes, the F-15 does have a perfect A2A combat record.

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/f-15_eagle.pl

Look down under "F-15 Eagle Achievments"

OOoo nooo...
u do belive it...
How the hell can u belive that..
Its a US statement...
Kind of like..
'The u.s have not killed any british soldiers'
I heard someone say that on the news in the recent war...

[Craig.]

I certainly consider the F-22 next generation. Its the first true stealth fighter. Its supercruise is much better than even the Typhoon. It has agility much better tha everything except the Typhoon.

It still is.. and is alot better than the euro****er were getting.. lol

Trust me that isnt the case. While the Eurofighter gets bad press, it wipes the floor with everything else out there right now. Very few people including the Test pilots know just what the Typhoon is capable of because it is still being restricted in terms of is manuverability to only 70% of its true capability hopefully within a year pilots will get to find out just how much better it can be. In mock combat the Typhoon has beaten everything it has come up against, including the upgraded migs and SU27/37's. It has an 8-1 kill ratio over the Rafale, and has not lost to the Grippen according to everything i have read. Its only a matter of time till a dogfight between the F-22 and the Typhoon is set up and then we shall see which is the better aircraft in a close combat situation. The Eurofighter can out-turn an F16 and is in general while a little let down by its lack of stealth capabilities, well worth the price tag and wait.

[Souichiro]

Go B-52!!!!!!

Don't care Which planes are better Russian ones or Americans Probaply it's the ones we don't get to see represents the level of both countries. (Skunkworks anyone?) Modern warfare is beginnig to look more like a videogame unfortunately the casualties are for real

[Craig.]

Cough...
Vectoring > >Eurofighter...<<

the Eurofighter doesnt have thrust vectoring, it is being discussed for the Tranche 3 models.

[Mobius]

The Eurofighter is not in production yet, so technically the F/A-22 is the first production fighter with those capabilities.  

**EDIT**  Yeah, I'm stupid, the Eurofighter is in production, but it still doesn't have thrust-vectoring.

And yes I do believe that the F-15 has a perfect air-to-air record.  The friend of mine who helped design the F-15 knows many F-15 pilots who say this is a true fact.

Also, no aircraft is completely stealthy, F-117s can be detected on radar.  The "stealthyness" (I made up a new word) of an airplane depends on the conditions at the time.  A manuevering airplane is not really stealthy, when the bay doors are open they're not stealthy, but in straight and level flight they can be picked up on radar, only their RCS is close to that of a bird's.

Interesting Fact: The B-52 has a smaller RCS than that of an F-15.  ??? wierd

[|| Andy ||]

Ja i know but im not fond of the euro****er

The Eurofighter can out-turn an F16 and is in general while a little let down by its lack of stealth capabilities, well worth the price tag and wait.

True True..

Ive heard all the reports on the Euro,
and i cant say im realy impressed...
the only thing ive got to say is its got a good thrust to weight ratio...

But it will have some horible gremlins when its in service..

And i would take a Su-27 or 37 anyday over the typhoon...

But if they decide to get the optinal air con, and thrust vectoring... i'll be happy in my eyes, that its got a little bit of russia inside it

[Craig.]

The Eurofighter is not in production yet, so technically the F/A-22 is the first production fighter with those capabilities

The Eurofighter is in full service with Italy and Germany. And is now being brought into service with 2 squadrons with the RAF. This is an Area Charlie will be able to clear up as hes on his way to flying the things:)

[|| Andy ||]

The Eurofighter is not in production yet, so technically the F/A-22 is the first production fighter with those capabilities.

Eurofighter is already in service