Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby HawkerTempest5 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:15 pm

With the manual pump undercarriage on the Spit it was possible to cause it to jam if operated incorrectly. Inverting the Spit would sometimes fix this. Last year, the BBMF's MkIIa P7350 had this exact problem. The pilot declared an emergency and intended to make a wheels up landing, but he decided to try inverting the plane first and the gear released. I imagine a few people breathed a little easier when the gear came down.
Squadron Leader Paul Day, OC BBMF, also had this problem in a two seat MkIX but the wheels refused to come down even after inverting and he was forced to make a wheels up. He and the passenger were unhurt and the Spit is now flying again after a long rebuild.
Last edited by HawkerTempest5 on Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Hagar » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:35 pm

Still hunting for details on the Spitfire handpump. From what Tempest's saying it was still fitted on the Mk IX.

Spare a thought for the old Anson. Not the most exciting or romantic aircraft but I discovered that not ony was 'Faithful Annie' the first monoplane to enter RAF service but also the first with a retractiing undercarriage. (This took 160 turns on a handwheel, not 100 as I suggested.) That's quite an achievement for any aircraft.

It also had some success in air-to-air combat.

The Anson entered service with the RAF in 1936 and, on the outbreak of war, formed the backbone of Coastal Command. The 'Annie' might have earned the epithet 'faithful' but with a top speed of less that 190 mph, a range of about 700 miles, and a bomb-load of 360 lbs, she was hardly a fast woman! However, she had - for the time - an advanced retractable undercarriage, even if it was manual and required 160 turns on the wheel.

Nevertheless, 'Faithful Annie' proved her worth as a reconnaissance and anti-submarine aircraft, with 500 Sqn attacking its first U-boat on 5th September 1939. Plt Off Harper of 206 Squadron earned a DFC for his attack on a surfaced U-boat on the 3rd December in the same year.

Incredibly, the Annie had success in air-to-air combat: in September 1939, an Anson of 269 Sqn shot down a Dornier Do 18. On 1st June 1940, Plt Off Peters of No 500 (County of Kent) Squadron led a patrol of three Ansons to Dunkirk to support the evacuation of the BEF. The flight was attacked by nine Me 109s and two Ansons were sufficiently damaged to force them to return to base. Peters remained on station, and made himself a very difficult target by slow, evasive manoeuvres at wave-top height. One Me 109 overshot his attack and Peters downed it with his nose gun; a second 109 was then shot down, and a third returned to base with severe damage. Peters returned safely to base - with just one bullet hole in his aircraft. Annie had truly proved herself 'faithful', and Peters was awarded a well-earned DFC.

http://www.griffon.clara.net/ccmaa/ccmaa_anson_iwm.htm

PS. Tempest. I think what you're describing on the Mk IX is the undercarriage operating lever, not a manual handpump. From what I can make out the manual pump was replaced by an engine-driven one on the Mk I. Both the handpump & later undercarriage operating lever (or selector lever) were in the same location on the right-hand side of the cockpit. The later version would still involve changing hands to operate but involve less effort. The lever was apparently a tad troublesome & liable to jam the uplocks if not operated positively in one movement when lowering the gear. This could sometimes be freed by pulling negative G which seems the same problem as you describe. It's quite possible the original handpump was suitably modified & retained to act an emergency pump.
Last edited by Hagar on Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby HawkerTempest5 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:37 pm

Hagar pal, I think you are correct about the lever on the IX and I think the problem was with the TR IX rather than the single seat model. If I remember rightly, Nick Grace had this happen once in ML407 due to the very short movement of the lever in the forward cockpit.
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Hagar » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:24 pm

My efforts have fnally met with some success. I think these two edited quotes answer some of the questions about the Spitfire handpump & Commonwealth aircrew that Brensec wanted to know. From both accounts it seems that at least some examples of the Spifire Mk I were not modified & still in service with training units in June 1941. I still can't find any mention of when the pump was replaced with an engine-driven one or how many aircraft had been produced when this change took place. I've added links to the full articles which make interesting reading. ;)

Sergeant Pilot William Aubrey Brew
From Pilot to POW in One Short Sweep

William Aubrey Brew applied for entry into the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) for the duration of World War II in late January 1940. Although an a thorough, full-day medical examination followed almost three months later, it would be a full six months after signing his attestation papers that he was finally accepted by the RAAF and admitted for pilot training. (In Canada)

As some of the course lecturers were British pilots who had seen action during the Battle of Britain, the men began to sober from the spirit of adventure, which had endured since enlistment. Slowly, the realisation of what awaited them in the United Kingdom began to emerge. Sadly, although they could not have known it at the time, several of them would not survive the year.

The course culminated in a graduation ceremony in Borden's drill hall, at which each of the men was presented his Wings. The Globe and Mail reported:

Squadron Leader G. A. R. Bradshaw of the R.A.F. pinned the wings on each member of the class after Group Captain R. S. Grandy, officer commanding the station, had addressed the graduates.

Most trainees graduated as Sergeant Pilots, although almost a third graduated with commissions as Pilot Officers; Brew was amongst the Sergeant Pilots. Two days later, his picture appeared with 41 other graduates on page 21 of the Toronto Daily Star, whilst an article on the graduation was also printed on page 3 of the same publication.

Days later, the men were transported to No. 1 Troop Embarkation Depot at Debert, near Halifax, Nova Scotia, to await a troopship to take them to the United Kingdom. They boarded the vessel Georgic and departed Canada on 6 April 1941, escorted part way across the Atlantic by the battleship HMS Rodney.



Hawarden's Operations Record Book (ORB) records the course's commencement on 23 April thus: "No. 20 Course commenced, comprising 8 Officers and 23 Sergeants from 9 F.T.S., 4 Officers and 11 Sergeants Canadian trained. Of these 1 Officer and 11 Sergeants were Australians." [PRO Air 29/683]

Until now, none of them had flown a Spitfire, let alone set foot in one. Much to their pleasure, they were soon sitting behind the controls, undergoing intensive training to fly this magnificent aircraft, which Brew recalls was "finer than driving a car".

However, these earlier training versions left a lot to be desired. Most were "clapped out" Spitfire Mk. I's, which had survived the Battle of Britain in various conditions and were no longer considered fit for combat. But they proved a good basic trainer for pilots who would later fly more advanced and improved models.

Part of the training consisted of repeated wheels-down landings and immediate take-offs without stopping, which was referred to as 'circuits and bumps'. One of the biggest challenges, however, was learning to coordinate between steering with the right hand and working the throttle with the left, then changing to steering with the left hand and pumping a lever up to 30 times with the right to lift the undercarriage manually. It required quite a bit of practice to get right, and many a pilot 'burped' his aircraft across the aerodrome before he got the hang of the manoeuvre.
http://brew.clients.ch/BillRAF2.htm

Bill McRae was born in Aberdeen, Scotland on 09/09/1919.

Bill: "We moved to Port Arthur, Canada (now Thunder Bay) in 1922

Bill McRae flew over 240 combat zone sorties in British & Canadian Squadrons being operational for over three years. He flew from the bases in Scotland to the shuttle bases of Takoradi in Africa. His war ended over Normandy flying in air combat and ground support missions every day for 60 days. Like many of his contemporaries he felt a duty to join in the war effort and enlisted on June 13th 1940 just after the fall of France. England stood alone and the Battle of Britain was just about to begin.

I landed in England on the 31st of May 1941, along with three others from my course, not knowing what I would be flying until ten days later later when I reported to No. 57 Operational Training Unit at Hawarden, North Wales and saw a number of Spitfires on a large grass airfield. They were all tired old Mk Is, a few still with hand pumped undercarriages. Scattered around the field were a number of Wellingtons from the resident Vickers factory.

Having not flown for over two months I was given a quick two circuit checkout on a Mk I Miles Master, then over the next few days put in two hours solo on the Master, becoming familiar with the area; and what a shock it was. I had previously flown only in winter, from rolled snow. Our 8 miles to the inch map was easy to read, with usually clear skies, and an uncluttered landscape. Now I had a four miles to the inch map, with the landscape a profusion of towns and villages, multiple railways, crooked roads going in all directions, and visibility limited by industrial smog. But, as one wartime song suggested, "the first year is the worst year, you'll get used to it", eventually I did. I should add that the two hours on the Master brought my total solo time to 70 hours.

We were briefed on the Spitfire's characteristics, which differed considerably from types previously flown. The 1,000+ hp, liquid cooled, RR Merlin 2 or 3 required the coolant temperature to be monitored and controlled by a manually operated radiator shutter. The control column was pivoted about a foot from the top, and topped with a circular spade grip. Within the spade grip was a bicycle type brake lever which controlled pressure to the air brakes, with differential application by movement of the rudder pedals. Undercarriage control was on the right side of the cockpit, requiring change of hands soon after take off. . Air operated flaps were selected by a simple toggle on the instrument panel, either up or fully down. The tail wheel was non-locking, non- steerable, fully castoring. This could be a problem in some situations; more about this later.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/9601/canada2.html
Last edited by Hagar on Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby ozzy72 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:05 pm

In answer to Brens question on the photos of EN830 (the MkV with the DB605 engine) head over to http://www.luftwaffe-experten.co.uk/supermarine.html which has many great photos of 'German' Spitfires (you have to scroll down a bit to find EN830).

Ozzy ;)
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Hagar » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:34 pm

Looks like they have enough there to equip a squadron or two. ::)
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby ozzy72 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:39 pm

Agreed Hagar, I was always surprised how many they ended up with that were still servicable.

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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Professor Brensec » Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:48 pm

Thanks for the link, Ozzy. And thanks for the info, Hagar.  ;D ;)

Did the Germans ever 'use' these creatures in battle, at all?? (I shouldn't think so, but then................)  :D

Hagar, that account about the Australian Pilot, Brew, is a clear account of the difficulty that Wellum had with this particular 'maneouvre'. Although Wellum's first Spit flight was in an active Sqdn (92). He had only 168 hrs on Tiger Moth and harvard, of which 90 had been solo. It's not alot of hours to see yiou 'comfortably' into a Spit (or any 1940 vintage fighter, for that matter!  ;))Thanks!  ;D :D ;)
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Felix/FFDS » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:06 am

[quote]
Did the Germans ever 'use' these creatures in battle, at all?? (I shouldn't think so, but then................)
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Wing Nut » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:09 am

What did you fellows leave behind at Dunkirk?  Or did all the aircraft get out in time?
[img]http://www.simviation.com/phpupload/uploads/1440377488.jpg[/img]
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby ozzy72 » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:20 am

A lot of the French Air Force planes ended up flying for the Reich. I don't think any British ones were left behind in a servicable condition.

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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Hagar » Mon Dec 15, 2003 4:20 am

[quote]Thanks for the link, Ozzy. And thanks for the info, Hagar.
Last edited by Hagar on Mon Dec 15, 2003 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby ozzy72 » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:30 am

Thanks for that link on KG200 Hagar, I've been looking for that (I couldn't remember their name) ;)

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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby Hagar » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:01 am

Thanks for that link on KG200 Hagar, I've been looking for that (I couldn't remember their name) ;)

Ozzy

You're most welcome Ozzy. Remembering a couple of keywords is the secret to being a successful "surfer". I couldn't remember the number either & used < luftwaffe secret unit > instead. 8)
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=luftwaffe+secret+unit
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Re: Spitfire Trivia - Prototype and Mk 1

Postby ozzy72 » Mon Dec 15, 2003 12:31 pm

Now why didn't I think of that ::) :-[ :-[ :-[ ;D
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