What the*** New York and Island Hog island??

[murjax]

Alright this one will be the last of my idea posts in this thread since I know you will get annoyed with me if I don't stop. I think an even better idea is to make a huge underground section of the city to so that people can use that as a space to get away from the weather(obviously it would have to be sealed and there would have to be air holes). I know all my idea have big money involved but remember, they are just ideas and anything can happen. You never know, maybe someday people will be able to live in Florida and work in New York and be able to do it for a low price.  :) Ok I am done now.  :)

[beaky]

Alright this one will be the last of my idea posts in this thread since I know you will get annoyed with me if I don't stop. I think an even better idea is to make a huge underground section of the city to so that people can use that as a space to get away from the weather(obviously it would have to be sealed and there would have to be air holes). I know all my idea have big money involved but remember, they are just ideas and anything can happen. You never know, maybe someday people will be able to live in Florida and work in New York and be able to do it for a low price.  :) Ok I am done now.  :)

I'm not annoyed; hope you're not annoyed that I'm taking potshots at these grand schemes.

Historically, mass sheltering doesn't work. It's best to get people away from the storm. Remember what happened in New Orleans when thousands were trapped in the Superdome during Katrina instead of being evacuated? Can you say "Terrordome"?

And in New York, there is simply no more room for a "huge underground section" that would accommodate eight million people. That's almost half the total population of the state of Florida...concentrated in one city... and not including really vulnerable areas like Long Island...  do you get it now? As it is, on a normla day, if you are walking in Manhattan and pause for a moment, you may get knocked down. Imagine what it would be like if everyone was scrambling to get into some centralized shelter.

And consider this: even with a suitable shelter or shelters and a week's notice, you could never get New Yorkers to drop everything and calmly file into a hole in the ground to wait out the storm. It would take a week just to get everybody in there, even if they were willing. I can ssure you, they will not be willing to leave their homes and businesses until things get really bad.

If we got hit with hurricanes on a regular basis, it might be worth looking into... but I can't see them demolishing half the city to build a giant storm shelter based on the existing threat.

[beaky]

Do us all a favor and don't go into civil engineering...  ;)

I didn't say I was. These are just little ideas that I have.

New York has never been hit by a storm that required evacuation, but if it ever is, I really hope I'm not around when it happens. It would create havoc... although there is plenty of roadway and RR track to move many people inland from Manhattan, all the outer boroughs and all of long Island would likely have to pass through parts of the city as well.  Not good.  :o
One can only hope there'd be sufficient notice to avoid a panic.

Well for Long Island the best thing for them is to add more ferries and ferry service to Connecticut. That would get Long Islanders inland without having to cram the city more.  :)

Would you get on a ferry as a hurricane was approaching the area? I wouldn't.

[beaky]

Weather or not another hurricane hits NY again, it's a good idea for them to have safety plans. First off, they need to get better windows. They need to be bulletproof windows that can fit in between the outside and the inside of the building. That way they can't be blown out or blown in. Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration are fires. A good modern idea would be to install pipes everywhere inside the building and if a fire happens, the pipes will take an anti flame liquid to the location of the fire. A very important thing in NY is transportation. The subway tunnels would need to be completly sealed off before a hurricane so that they don't get flooded. That sounds like a good idea now doesn't it?  :)

Good luck with that! They cannot even figure out a way to quell traffic.

Well actually, they kind of did. They built a massive public transit system that extends from the NYC subways, to the Long Island Railroad(which covers almost all of Long Island) and to Connecticut. If NY didn't have this, NY would be clogged so badly that it wouldn't be able to operate.

It barely operates... trust me, I've been driving and/or riding trains here for almost 30 years.

[beaky]

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration are fires. A good modern idea would be to install pipes everywhere inside the building and if a fire happens, the pipes will take an anti flame liquid to the location of the fire.

Um... they already have that; it's called a "sprinkler system".  Been a legal requirement for new construction in NYC for over 50 years, I believe... and the technology's been around longer than that.

The "anti flame" liquid is... water.  ;D

But water won't stick to the surface to keep the building safe from burning. There's a project going with fire departments in California where they are developing and anti-flamable liquid that would stick to the surface for days and prevent it from burning. It would be much more efficient than water.  :)

Are you talking about an exterior fire-suppression system? If so, that would not be terribly practical in NYC, where most buildings are made of stone or steel and glass. Fires there rarely spread between buildings, especially if sprinkler systems are installed.
I think the research in California is to protect wooden homes from wildfires... in that scenario, its a very good idea, if you don't mind having a slimy house.

[murjax]

[quote][quote][quote][quote]Weather or not another hurricane hits NY again, it's a good idea for them to have safety plans. First off, they need to get better windows. They need to be bulletproof windows that can fit in between the outside and the inside of the building. That way they can't be blown out or blown in. Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration are fires. A good modern idea would be to install pipes everywhere inside the building and if a fire happens, the pipes will take an anti flame liquid to the location of the fire. A very important thing in NY is transportation. The subway tunnels would need to be completly sealed off before a hurricane so that they don't get flooded. That sounds like a good idea now doesn't it?

[beaky]

Well, I will count on my own weather savvy and the willingness to get out of the area early, rather than waiting until things get ugly. The NJT, LIRR, and PATH rail systems are notorious for weather-related delays... a full-blown hurricane would probably shut them all down in no time. Even the rats will know to stay out of the rail tunnels if a storm of that magnitude hits... much of the large storm pump equipment down there is 100 years old. the PATH tunnels are some of the oldest in the world... I take those trains all the time, and even a little rain or snow seems to wreak havoc down there.

The "serious work" on NYC's subway system will not , of course,  keep up with normal passenger volume. The almost-mythical 2nd Avenue line, which is a minor project in scope compared to the construction of the original lines, has been desperately needed for almost 80 years, and is just getting started this year.  By 2020, when that line, the tunnel between the LIRR line and Grand Central, and some more lines downtown are expected to be completed (but will not be, rest assured), the population of the city will probably have doubled (noticed all the new high-rises going up?). And while they're being built, there will be numerous related problems above and below ground.
 I hate to be a pessimist, but I don't see a very bright future for transportation or emergency plans in the city of New York.
Although I understand Mayor Bloomberg is something of a booster for increased waterway usage, including more floatplane operations... not very useful in a hurricane, but a pleasant way to commute under normal circumstances.  ;D

[murjax]

Well, I will count on my own weather savvy and the willingness to get out of the area early, rather than waiting until things get ugly. The NJT, LIRR, and PATH rail systems are notorious for weather-related delays.

Really? I know a hurricane would bring everything but let me ask you something. Do they have heated track? I know Amtrak does and that keeps them running all the time and the only thing that would take them out of service is a hurricane. I like discussing all these issues because it's always good to know what we can do for the world and what the world needs.

[NDSP]

Murjax I seriously doubt a hurricane over 2.5 scale is gonna hit NYC in the next, oh, 100 years

And underground area wouldnt work because like rotty said, you cant fit 8+ million people in one underground space

NYC isnt really an unsafe place to live in any way

Earthquakes - Dont have them

Hurricanes - All are very weak

Tornadoes - Nope

Tsunami - Nada

Flood - Depends on where you live, but atleast in my town, dont have.'

Crime Rates - Going down every year

Nick

[murjax]

Murjax I seriously doubt a hurricane over 2.5 scale is gonna hit NYC in the next, oh, 100 years

And underground area wouldnt work because like rotty said, you cant fit 8+ million people in one underground space

NYC isnt really an unsafe place to live in any way

Earthquakes - Dont have them

Hurricanes - All are very weak

Tornadoes - Nope

Tsunami - Nada

Flood - Depends on where you live, but atleast in my town, dont have.'

Crime Rates - Going down every year

Nick

Thanks for reminding me Nick. NY is one of the safest places on the planet. You've never had an earthquake, the only hurricanes you've ever had there are weak, the closest tornado to NY I remember was on the NY/CT border, never had a tsunami and I don't think you get floods in Manhattan but I do remember seeing flooding in parts of NJ when passing through on the train. Oh yeah and you don't get wildfires. You should see the smoke in Florida right now.

[beaky]

Murjax I seriously doubt a hurricane over 2.5 scale is gonna hit NYC in the next, oh, 100 years

And underground area wouldnt work because like rotty said, you cant fit 8+ million people in one underground space

NYC isnt really an unsafe place to live in any way

Earthquakes - Dont have them

Hurricanes - All are very weak

Tornadoes - Nope

Tsunami - Nada

Flood - Depends on where you live, but atleast in my town, dont have.'

Crime Rates - Going down every year

Nick

Thanks for reminding me Nick. NY is one of the safest places on the planet. You've never had an earthquake, the only hurricanes you've ever had there are weak, the closest tornado to NY I remember was on the NY/CT border, never had a tsunami and I don't think you get floods in Manhattan but I do remember seeing flooding in parts of NJ when passing through on the train. Oh yeah and you don't get wildfires. You should see the smoke in Florida right now.

Actually, there have been minor tremors in NYC... in fact, Harlem sits on land that is mostly fill over a major fault that is being watched closely. If it ever lets go that would be very nasty.
There have been small tornadoes SW of the city, and I definitely recall one being sighted just north of the GW Bridge, along the Palisades, some years ago.
No tsunamis yet, but if that big chunk of Africa ever falls off, the city is doomed.

But the greatest danger in NYC, other than getting run over by a bus or taxi, is dying of starvation after paying your rent.