It's good to talk...

[dcunning30]

As for dcunnings comment I can't make head nor tail of it as we're refering to older incidents and shooting your mates... methinks he didn't read the comment clearly or didn't understand what a blue on blue means.
Friendly-fire, what a SICK term

Fair statement.  I didn't know what a blue on blue was.  I misunderstood the context.

[dcunning30]

As I get older & arguably wiser I'm not convinced that patriotism is such a good thing. I was fiercely patriotic once. I now believe it's the cause of a lot of trouble in this world.

I disagree, it is not patriotism that causes trouble in the world.

[Hagar]

I disagree, it is not patriotism that causes trouble in the world.

Maybe not but patriotism is a weapon used by unscrupulous leaders to achieve their aims. Blind loyalty to your cause is a form of mass hypnotism, brainwashing, call it what you like. It's an extreme example but you only have to watch footage of the rallies held in Nazi Germany to see what I mean.

[ozzy72]

Or read Mr. Mugabes comments today on protesters being beaten so badly they're in hospital courtesy of the Zimbabwe police... and he says it is justified because they're being unpatriotic

[Brett_Henderson]

I think, one of many things appreciated by both Western Europeans and North Americans (I guess that's Western Civilization in general, hu ?), is constructive patriotism. It's born of freedom. When you're free to feel un-patriotic, it kinda makes you more patriotic.

Before goof-balls like Hitler can muster the blind, destructive patriotism, they must first start whittling away at freedom... then go about annexing populations... as opposed to people striving to join their population.

The patriotism I cherish... is when you know in your heart that where you live is special, you're proud of it.. and you'd like it to stay that way.

[Hagar]

This is quite terrifying. Organised patriotism by past masters of the craft. Watch & be warned. http://youtube.com/watch?v=eHZGjmH-nNE&mode=related&search=

PS. This is rare & interesting archive footage. Please take no notice of the ignorant comments attached to it.

[dcunning30]

That's not patriotism.

[Hagar]

jingoism

n

1: an appeal intended to arouse patriotic emotions [syn: flag waving]
2: fanatical patriotism [syn: chauvinism, superpatriotism, ultranationalism]

[dcunning30]

jingoism

n

1: an appeal intended to arouse patriotic emotions [syn: flag waving]
2: fanatical patriotism [syn: chauvinism, superpatriotism, ultranationalism]

Looking at that logically, if 1 were true, then 2 would be patriotism and no more.

[Hagar]

I have yet to see an argument that can substancially and logically describe patriotism as something that is negative.

If patriotism were something that, it appears you're describing, as something negative, then there's a whole lot of negativity going on every 4 years during the Olympics.

Patriotism (being proud of your country) is fine up to a point & providing it's not taken too far. Unfortunately it can easily get out of hand. That vid is an extreme example of how the enthusiasm of young people can be taken advantage of by unscrupulous people for their own ends. It's usually far more subtle than that.

If only all arguments could be settled at something like the Olympics instead of all this fighting & conflict.

[Brett_Henderson]

I think we're splitting hairs over an adjective; applied, assumed or otherwise..

Loyalty is good. Blind loyalty is not good.

Love is good. Obsessive love is not good.

Patriotism is good. (pick your adjective) patriotism is not good.

[dcunning30]

Patriotism (being proud of your country) is fine up to a point & providing it's not taken too far.

That's how I define patriotism.  When one's behavior evolves into jingosim, then that can lead to destructive behavior.

[dcunning30]

Or read Mr. Mugabes comments today on protesters being beaten so badly they're in hospital courtesy of the Zimbabwe police... and he says it is justified because they're being unpatriotic

That's like saying "if you love me you'll do "

Because "patriotic" or "love" is used as a justification for destructive behavior, than doesn't mean the word used as an excuse is, in fact, destructive.

[Hagar]

When one's behavior evolves into jingosim, then that can lead to destructive behavior.

Jingoism = flag waving. My country is a past master at that. It's where the term originated after all & we've had plenty of practice. We're also hated all over the world for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

[dcunning30]

Jingoism = flag waving. My country is a past master at that. It's where the term originated after all & we've had plenty of practice. We're also hated all over the world for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

Mere flag waving is insufficient of a definition.  A patriotic person may wave a flag.  A jingoistic person may also wave a flag.  But the link you provided it much more accurately describes jingoism beyond merely calling it flag waving:

Jingoism is a term describing chauvinistic patriotism, usually with a hawkish political stance. In practice, it refers to sections of the general public who advocate bullying other countries or using whatever means necessary to safeguard a country's national interests.

But to be honest, I don't understand why we are having to debate the differences between jingoism and patriotism.  The differences are obvious.  But it is unfortunate that people are referring to jingoism, but are mis-labelling it as patriotism.