May 24, 1941 The Bismarck sinks HMS Hood

[dcunning30]

Unless there's a really lucky shot at some unprotected vulnerable part, sinking a BB is the result of overwhelming the BB with many shots.  My opinion is the Hood sunk as a result of a lucky shot and the Bismark was, in more traditional manner, overwhelmed to the point of her demise.    But then again, given the Hood's lack of armor, I believe she could never survive a slugfest with Bismark, so maybe it wasn't so much as luck after all.  Regardless of Hood's speed, a good firing solution is good if the target is fast moving or slow moving.  It just doesn't matter.

BTW, I'm too lazy to google for the facts, but whether she took a torpedo or was scuttled, it doesn't matter.  No captain will scuttler his ship unless he's left with no other alternatives.  So, it doesn't matter, the Royal Navy sunk Bismark, regardless of who fired the last shot.

[Woodlouse2002]

One on one the Hood wouldn't have stood a chance against Bismarck. How ever the presence of the Prince of Wales did actually tip the odds in the British's favour. The shot that hit the Hoods magazine was unfortunate as it wouldn't have happened in the Hood hadn't made a turn so as to get her aft guns into use. If she had remained on course and closed the gap sufficiantly to eliminate the high plunging fire that eventually went through the deck and into the magazine then the whole thing may have ended differently.

[dcunning30]

True Hood had extra armour added. But this was not as a result of Jutland as the Hood was launched in 1918, two years after the battle.

Perhaps this site is in error, but that's what it stated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood_%2851%29

However, the engagement between Hood and Bismarck can be seen as a battleship vs battleship engagement.

That may be so, but as you stated above, it was in fact, a battlecruiser vs battleship engagement.

Never forget that the Prince of Wales was also present and she was a Battleship.

The Prince of Wales wasn't sunk, Hood was.

[Woodlouse2002]

I don't think the site is as accurate as it could be. Every other source I've read has refered to Hood as a true Battlecruiser. Even with the extra armour, speed was still going to be her most effective weapon.

However, the engagement between Hood and Bismarck can be seen as a battleship vs battleship engagement.  

That may be so, but as you stated above, it was in fact, a battlecruiser vs battleship engagement.

Except for the Prince of Wales, which was a battleship and took part in the engagement.

The Prince of Wales wasn't sunk, Hood was.

And?

[dcunning30]

Perhaps,  but positioning your ship so you can allow all your mounts to engage the enemy is a fairly standard consideration in naval gunnery, so you can't dismiss Hood's demise to that manuver like that.  It's just one of those things in warfare, the element of chance is always present.

[dcunning30]

And?

My point is the Hood was outclassed by Bismark.  The Presence of Prince of Wales does not change that.  Now, if Prince of Wales could have drawn Bismark's attention to her being that she could take more punishment than Hood, that would be something that could have spared Hood.

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]Perhaps,

[H]

...the shells were flying fast (or, in this case, maybe, past). Sorry, you two have that line (from the song The Sinking of the Bismark) reverberating in my mind.

Um, which of you is which ship?

[Felix/FFDS]

Interesting that the Hood's fate had been suffered by the HMS Good Hope at the hands of the Gneisenau almost 27 years earlier....

[Smoke2much]

I met one of the Navigator/Wireless operators who flew on the Bismarck Mission.

He was shot down by an HMS, I am unsure of which one but it was possibly Nofolk.

I have never heared of the scuttling of the Bismarck before, but then the truth is that I have never read that much about it.

[dcunning30]

I have never heared of the scuttling of the Bismarck before, but then the truth is that I have never read that much about it.

Neither have I.  I know the Graf Spee was scuttled off Montevideo.  That's it for me.

[Woodlouse2002]

I met one of the Navigator/Wireless operators who flew on the Bismarck Mission.

He was shot down by an HMS, I am unsure of which one but it was possibly Nofolk.

I have never heared of the scuttling of the Bismarck before, but then the truth is that I have never read that much about it.

More likely Sheffield. She was attacked by Swordfish from the Ark Royal who misidentified her has Bismarck (They were on the look out of a single warship and didn't know that Sheffield was also alone). Fortuately for Sheffield the Magnetic detonators in the torpedo's were faulty which ment most blew up on contact with the water. The couple that didn't missed.


As for the scuttling of the Bismarck, I believe some of the survivors claimed she was scuttled. But by that time she was little more than a burning hulk so if she was then it only saved the Royal Navy some ammunition.

[dcunning30]

The US Navy learned after alot of pain and beaurocratic stonewalling that magnetic detonators were no good.  You design and test them at one latitude on the earth, not considering the magnetic field varies from latitude to latitude.  So what works at Groton Conneticuit fails off Borneo.

[4_Series_Scania]

 No captain will scuttler his ship unless he's left with no other alternatives.

Kpt.z.S. Hans Langsdorf Master of the  Panzerschiffe Admiral Graf Spee scuttles that theory if you pardon the pun.

Imo (I've studied the battle of the river plate in detail over the years) Graff Spee could have carried on fighting during the battle itself or, equally, evaded its british persuers and returned to Germany.

For reasons we'll probably never truly know, Langsdorf decided to scuttle Spee without a further fight.

Again, imo, I believe he was'nt a true Nazi and did'nt desire to continue the fight with the british, a people whom he greatly respected.

[Woodlouse2002]

Again, imo, I believe he was'nt a true Nazi and did'nt desire to continue the fight with the british, a people whom he greatly respected.

Langsdorf was a Captain of the old school and I believe that he didn't want to risk his crew in another round with the British. True he could have slipped out unseen by the british, the Plate estury is 100 miles wide and none of the vessels had Radar.

Whats more, during his 72 hours in Montevideo there were so many rumours of a British task force gathering outside the mouth of the river that no one really knew just what was waiting for him. As far as Langsdorf knew it could have just been Ajax and Achilliies, (in truth Cumberland had arrived from South Georgia and had taken over from Exeter) or the Graf Spee could have steamed out straight into Hood and Ark Royal