Organisations...War Crimes type....

[Flt.Lt.Andrew]

Yes, I know all about the Aboriginal wipeouts and the shameful barabarity of those acts, of which I am not proud of, I admit, that post was more of a flak drawing exercise than anything else.
I am regularly shamed in regard to my country's appaling treatment of natives in the past and am deeply sorry for it, but I do stand by the government's position of not apologising as once that happpens the flood gates are open for lawsuits which would effectively bleed (or rather drain) the Federal Treasury dry.

A.

[Professor Brensec]

I agree. I am very sorry that it happened to them (as I am when anything bad happens to anyone), but I don't believe an apology from people who were not born will help (or at least should help) heal any wounds.

Those that perpetrated the deeds are long dead and our apologising shouldn't be an issue for those whio were also not alive then.

That includes that 'Lost Children' even though the perpetrators are probably still alive, in many acses it was done for genuine reasons and the children were actually better off (as many have acknowledged).

Those that were taken in less 'genuine' circumstances can't reasonably expect the government to apologise for 'mistakes' that were the result of a fundamentally well-meaning exercise in humanity.  :D

[4_Series_Scania]

Interesting thread!

Had Germany not started bombing London, Dresden would have never happened! - The Battle of Britain would have been lost and I'd now be German!

[Flt.Lt.Andrew]

Yeah, I'd like to see someone acknowledge (at least from the Aboriginal community) that the Aboriginals best interests were put first (albeit somewhat misguidedly) in the "Stolen Generation" affair.

A.

[Hagar]

Yeah, I'd like to see someone acknowledge (at least from the Aboriginal community) that the Aboriginals best interests were put first (albeit somewhat misguidedly) in the "Stolen Generation" affair.

A.

Maybe I shouldn't comment as I don't know a great deal on the subject. From a distance, & without knowing the full facts, one has to wonder on the real motives behind it. This article might be biased for all I know but if what it says is true I can't see how this could ever be described as being in the "best interests" of the Aboriginal people.
http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1998-no-frames/aboriginal-children.htm
Nor can I see how any self-respecting Aboriginal could be expected to acknowledge it.

It's as unfathomable to me as the terrible things done by one race to another throughout history almost anywhere in the world you can think of. The main motive is greed, with the newcomers with their superior technology & weapons grabbing the best land for themselves, by force if necessary. It invariably comes down to force in the end. This is always excused as being in the "best interests" of the indigenous inhabitants & despite their protests. What puzzles me is that the oppressors actually appear to believe this themselves. It seems the white Anglo-Saxon people is responsible for most of these atrocities & we have a great deal to answer for. I would have thought that with its comparatively small population Australia was a big enough country to have more than enough room for everyone.

PS.

On 19 November 2004 at 20:17:12 (Canberra time), the resident population of Australia is projected to be: 20,219,128
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/ABS@.nsf/0/1647509ef7e25faaca2568a900154b63?OpenDocument

According to the 2001 census the official population of England (with an area of 50,362 sq miles a tiny country compared with the 2,966,200 sq miles of Australia) was 49,138,831.

[ATI_7500]

Had Germany not started bombing London, Dresden would have never happened! - The Battle of Britain would have been lost and I'd now be German!

Sadly, Hitler and G

[Professor Brensec]

Hagar, I'm certainly no expert on the issue, but having grown up around these people all my life, I have to say that the article at the end of that link is, like all articles about a 'contoversial' subject, in part right and in part, wrong.

The fundamental reason the Aboriginal children were taken from their parents (and that's the only issue at hand in the 'Stolen Generation' affair), was to protect them from abusive parents and from, what was considered at the time, unwholesome situations. They were, by and large, well cared for, as is evidenced by many of the grown up children today.

However, regardless of the reasons, they shouldn't have been taken without due process and without appeal. That's what was wrong. There were alos many instances of 'misguided relocation' without consideration for their feelings. That's the problem, they TRULY thought that they weren't 'real people'.

There are many aspects of the way in which Aboriginal people were treated, up until quite recently, from a historical point of view, that were terrible and unfair and can only be compared to the sorts of things which have happened in every ostensibly British colony and the United states well after the British left.

But we've tried to put it right, being the fair minded race that we are. However, as usual, we've gone too far the other way and created a situation which can only be called 'reverse dicrimination'. This simply breeds contempt and a sense of unfairness among hard working and honest white people, which goes more towards damaging the Aboriginal cause than helping it.

I get upset when Sharon has to try to find $1000 to pay her University fees each semester (and also gets the statement for her 'deferred study account' with a
balance of $30,000 which she has to pay back when she finally goes back to work), while a ONE EIGHTH caste Aboriginal doesn't pay a red cent. That's just one example of soooooooo many instances of whites paying the toll for the mistakes of their great grand parents.

A far better way would be to simply give them 'EQUAL' rights rather than 'handouts' which only serve in the long run to make them dependant. Even now there are Aboriginals around who feel they shouldn't have to pay for anything. What will they do when the handouts stop?? Because they will, one day.

Like the article, everything has gone too far and the real issues have become lost somewhere in all the  rhetoric.

[Hagar]

How I enjoy our discussions Prof. You're a very perceptive person & once again you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

they TRULY thought that they weren't 'real people'.

This seems to be the main cause of all oppression & discrimination. Anyone different is treated as a lesser being or even as subhuman. It's so common it must be a natural human trait.

However, as usual, we've gone too far the other way and created a situation which can only be called 'reverse dicrimination'. This simply breeds contempt and a sense of unfairness among hard working and honest white people, which goes more towards damaging the Aboriginal cause than helping it.

..................

A far better way would be to simply give them 'EQUAL' rights rather than 'handouts' which only serve in the long run to make them dependant.

I coudn't agree more. "Positive discrimination" directed towards any section of the community cannot possibly work. It causes resentment amongst the majority which effectively makes things worse, not better. If politicians & racial equality organisations realised this & simply treated everyone the same, my country & the world would be a far better place for everybody.

[Professor Brensec]

Thanks Hagar, for the very kind words. As I hope you're aware, I very much value your comments and ideas. We do tend to 'speak the same language' often.

(Now all we have to do is educate the masses.............lol ).

Seriously though, as you say, I think also that the main cause of any type of discrimination is a result of one group believing they are superior to the other, and in some cases, they consider them not to be human.

Again, what is so sad, in their hearts they are genuinely convinced because of generations of people being brought up and taught that this is the 'nature of things'. So, can they really be blamed for believing what has been taught, by word and example, for generations?

[WebbPA]

I don't support racism, but I think you are missing a point of military indoctrination.

To make it easier to kill another human soldiers are trained  not to think that they may kill humans, but that they may kill "the enemy".

To make "the enemy" easier to kill he is given racist names - Jerry, VC, etc. - and racist personalities.

[eno]

I don't support racism, but I think you are missing a point of military indoctrination.

To make it easier to kill another human soldiers are trained  not to think that they may kill humans, but that they may kill "the enemy".

To make "the enemy" easier to kill he is given racist names - Jerry, VC, etc. - and racist personalities.

A valid point ....... for both themes in this thread.

[Flt.Lt.Andrew]

In The Colony there is a culture of "laugh and patronise."
From an early age children constantly find a source of amuesment in Aboriginal people, steryotypes and their "behaviours" (petrol sniffing, getting drunk, etc. It should be noted that biologically Aborginals cannot metabolise alcohol.)
When these children grow up, they feel sorry for them and attempt to make up for what they have done in their childhood, all the while looking down at them from their Four Wheel Drives.