Battle of Britain.

[eno]

I watched an interesting programme on ITV (Independant television UK) last night about how close Britain came to being Invaded in 1940. Less than 7 days was the FACT not the estimate. All that I can say is thank God for the RAF.

S-day (The German invasion plan was called Operation Sealion.) as it was called by the Germans was the 15th Sept 1940 but because of the efforts of the RAF keeping the Luftwaffe under control over the skys of Southern England, this date was posponed by a week. As we all know now the RAF kept the Germans under control and maintained Air Superiority.
Hitler posponed the Invasion indefinately and only abandoned the plans completely a few weeks before D-Day.  

I've just tried, without success, any links to this programme on the ITV website  :'(

cheers
eno

[Hagar]

Hi Eno. I would have watched this programme if I'd known about it. I would be interested to know who was responsible for it. Unfortunately some "historians" have their own agenda & do not let the facts interfere in these so-called documentaries.

This subject has been discussed at length many times over the years & on this forum. Unless any new facts have emerged, most historians agree that despite what was thought at the time, Hitler had never seriously considered invading Britain. He hoped to persuade the British government to sign a non-aggression treaty. This is not so far-fetched as it might sound today. Many senior politicians were sympathetic & would have done so had it not been for one man - Winston Churchill. Operation Seel

[HawkerTempest5]

I watched this myself last night and I have to say I'm not too sure what to make of it. It was entertaining but I'm not sure just how accurate it was. One of the eye whitness accounts came from a novel written by the lady in question. Lots of scenes from the BoB movie including a shot of a MkXIV in 1940 colours that I can't remember seeing in the film, must have been an out take. I bet Fighter Command wished they had all those MkIXs ans XIVs in July 1940
Interesting, yes and I'm sure based on some truth, but I agree with Hagar's thoughts on the German invasion plans.

[4_Series_Scania]

Ditto to the above sentiment.

I watched the program last night, the anouncment of the Surrender made my blood run cold......

I thank God that Hitler was the main strategist in the Reich, imagine what could have happened.......

[Scorpiоn]

Didn't Hitler say Britain and France were not Germany's true enemies, that it was the Soviets that truly threatened Germany?

[Hagar]

Didn't Hitler say Britain and France were not Germany's true enemies, that it was the Soviets that truly threatened Germany?

From what I've read, Hitler admired the British Empire. What he had hoped for was that Britain would allow him to expand Germany in a similar way without interfering. Many of the senior politicians in the British War Cabinet would have been only too willing to go along with this. I believe we have one man to thank for saving us from going down this dubious path. Winston Churchill. Whatever you might think about him he hated Hitler & all he stood for.

I found this site which gives the relevant facts as I see them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sealion
This is a sobering thought.

A mass invasion by sea however, may not have been necessary. In British wartime cabinet documents released in 1998, it was revealed that after the failure of the British Expeditionary Force in France and its evacuation at Dunkirk, Winston Churchill had lost support in the cabinet and in Parliament. Had the Royal Air Force been defeated by the Luftwaffe, Churchill would have been replaced as Prime Minister by Foreign Secretary Lord Halifax, who was known to be in favour of peace negotiations with Germany rather than face a civilian bloodbath on British soil.

This is a transcript of the top secret orders for Operation Seel

[Scorpiоn]

Interesting read Hagar, thanks for the links. Didn't know that bit about Churchill's near unemployment.

Would it be safe to say then, that had the Luftwaffe continued it's assault on the RAF, Germany might've very well never had to have dealt with a Western front?  In the forseeable future, at least.

[Hagar]

Hi Scorp. As I was born & still live right in the middle of the likely invasion area I've been interested in this subject for most of my life. There are many myths about the BoB & Operation Seel

[ATI_7500]

Without one of the most important navigation error in history it would have turned out your way,Doug.
Stupid bomber pilots...

[Hagar]

Without one of the most important navigation error in history it would have turned out your way,Doug.
Stupid bomber pilots...

Maybe Bj

[Woodlouse2002]

I think there is a fair bit on truth in that story. I recall reading somewhere that the crew of the Bomber were court marshalled as a result of their blunder.

[Scorpiоn]

Wow.  I'm not sure what more there is to say but that.

Sure is fascinating to imagine what could've happened, but aren't we fortunate not to know.

I think I said this before, but I watched a program that detailed a German invasion of Britain (But focused mostly on Churchill's guerillas), and becasue there was no Western air war, Barbarossa went ahead much smoothly, and eventually succeeded.  Later on, the Cold War is played out by America and Germany, and a Nazi flag is planted on the moon before America, since, historically some or one of NASA's top engineers never "chose" to work for NASA after Germany's defeat.

Although this "history" line still works with a peace with Britain.  Interesting.

[Hagar]

Sure is fascinating to imagine what could've happened

It is fascinating but can only ever be speculation. Most people seem to forget that nothing is as clearcut as it looks & the upredictable often spoils the best laid plans.

Theorists seem to make the mistake of looking at things from a modern day viewpoint. It might be difficult for the younger generations to imagine but almost anything you can think of was different 60 years ago. This includes morals, loyalty, beliefs & the way people thought & lived their lives. Ordinary people generally accepted what they were told without question if they thought it helped the war effort. Many who were there at the time still believe what they were told which is the reason these myths survive. This, & fading memories, is what makes unearthing the truth much more difficult.

In 1940s Britain it was believed by even the most senior politicians that invasion was imminent. All the road signs & nameboards on railway stations had been removed by government order. It was impossible to obtain a road map & illegal to own one. Strangers were treated with suspicion which made things very difficult for genuine travellers, even servicemen & women posted to a new unit. Spies, or fifth columnists as they were then called, were hiding behind every tree so you would be careful what you discussed even with close friends & family. Many people working on top secret projects took those secrets to the grave when they died many decades later. Everyone was on the lookout for German parachutists. Propaganda, combined with government censorship, was an even more powerful tool than it is today. It was effective as there were no TV reporters behind enemy lines reporting their every move round the clock as there are now. Propaganda was used by both sides on their own people as well as the enemy but Goebbels had made it into an art form & was in a class of his own.

I'm now used to everything I once believed in being disproved when new facts come to light. This no longer upsets me but I take it all with a pinch of salt these days. Maybe this is what made me the old cynic I am.

[Felix/FFDS]

One also tends to forget that in the mid-thirties there was a lot of anti-semitism as well, that to a certain point helped "set"  a mindset that "Hitler wasn't all that bad" among certain people.

Note that, just as the US had the German-American "Bund", Britain had the British UNion of Fascists (BUF) modelled after Mussolini fascism, and at a point, backed by notable people, and the Daily Mirror.  So, it wasn't a people all united in the early days of the war (Or "Why go to war over Poland?")

[Scorpiоn]

It is fascinating but can only ever be speculation. Most people seem to forget that nothing is as clearcut as it looks & the upredictable often spoils the best laid plans.

Theorists seem to make the mistake of looking at things from a modern day viewpoint. It might be difficult for the younger generations to imagine but almost anything you can think of was different 60 years ago. This includes morals, loyalty, beliefs & the way people thought & lived their lives. Ordinary people generally accepted what they were told without question if they thought it helped the war effort. Many who were there at the time still believe what they were told which is the reason these myths survive. This, & fading memories, is what makes unearthing the truth much more difficult.

Very true.  I know I can't possibly imagine what it was like to live back then, and I make no claim to have an authoritave opinion any any such matters, but usually when I diverge from "agreed" history, I do so mainly for my own amusement.  Contrary to my commonly bemused expression, I do actually find just sitting back and letting the mind imagine quite entertaining.  And with my limited knowledge of German, and can produce some fairly convincing "movies" in my mind.  If my imagination produces something remotely possible, I'm quite satisfied with it, since as you stated, reality rarely goes to plan.

And although it's impossible to understand, that's what keeps me coming back to World War II: It's one thing to know, it's another to understand.