Fairey Aces

[denishc]

 Recently I've become interested in aircraft built by the Fairey Aircraft Company and I was wondering were there any pilots that flew either the Fulmar or Firefly who managed to down five or more enemy aircraft during World War Two?

[Stormtropper]

The names don't ring a bell, can you post some pictures to refresh my memory?

[denishc]

 I've got not photos but here's a link that has pics and info on both aircraft:

 http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Fulmar.htm

 http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Firefly.htm

 http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/aircraft/Index.html

[Hagar]

I doubt it unless this was against inferior types. The Fairey aircraft were not noted for their looks or performance. The company seems to have lost its way after the delightful little Flycatcher (1922). http://www.britishaircraft.co.uk/aircraftpage.php?ID=361
This was possibly a result of doing its best to satisfy unrealistic specifications* issued by the Admiralty which seemed to have an unexplained loyalty to the company. (I often suspected that Fairey Aviation might be the only company prepared to attempt to meet these specifications.)

At the time the Fulmar & Firefly were designed the RN insisted on an extra crew member being carried on carrier-borne fighter aircraft. The extra weight alone would obviously affect performance compared with a single-seater fighter of the same power. The Fairey Battle suffered in a similar fashion by meeting an Air Ministry specification for a single-engined day bomber. It was obsolete before it entered service in 1937 & many brave crews died in this deathtrap in the early months of WWII.

*PS. This is not unusual even today. Nobody in power seems to learn anything from history & nothing of any use was ever designed by a committee. The most successful British aircraft during WWII (including the Hurricane & Spitfire) were produced as private ventures by the manufacturers at considerable financial risk.

[HawkerTempest5]

At the time the Fulmar & Firefly were designed the RN insisted on an extra crew member being carried on carrier-borne fighter aircraft. The extra weight alone would obviously affect performance compared with a single-seater fighter of the same power
.

Regarding preformance, although the Firefly was powered by either a 1750hp Griffon IIB or a 1990hp Griffon XII (F Mk I), it was still some 20mph slower than the best Seafire of the day (Mk LIIIc) powered by a 1470hp Merlin 55. The last Fireflys (Mk V) powered by a much more capable Griffon 74 rated at 2190hp turning a four bladed prop, coming after the end of WW2, were still only able to match the performance of the far less powerful Seafire IIIc.

[Felix/FFDS]

http://my.tele2.ee/airacesww2/airaces/a ... kacese.htm

Spotted this reference which seems to indicate an FAA pilot "S Orr" with 12 victories - aircraft indicated as the Fulmar.  Whether all victories were in the Fulmar or in other aircraft (FAA pilots seconded to the RAF during the Battle of Britain scored some victories, as well), would be a matter of further research.

Maybe one of our readers could post more information?

(Okay, that's it. I'm swearing off UK aviation magazines for the rest of the month!)

[Hagar]

From the FAA Archive. http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/

[quote]SG Orr RNVR
Born london 1916

[Scottler]

Is it me or do those pictures make them resemble a Spitfire and a Hawker Tempest, repsectively?

Very similar characteristics.

[Hagar]

The only resemblance I can see between the Fulmar & the Spitfire is the engine cowling & prop.*


Some variants of the Firefly had a chin radiator scoop, smaller & more box-like than the one on the Napier powered Tempests.


The later Firefly AS 5 reminds me of the Sea Fury in some respects. The wing is a very similar shape. Not sure if this was more than coincidental. I always thought this version was the most attractive of the Fairey monoplane fighters. This one was sadly destroyed in a fatal accident at Duxford last year.


*Not surprising as it was fitted with the Merlin engine. It possibly used some Spitfire parts to save time & development costs.

[Felix/FFDS]

I did read one description of the Firefly which stated that the navigator was armed with "rolls of Admiralty brown which, when thrown caused more than one e/a to veer sharply away from the terrifying new weapon of the dastardly British"!

(more or less - quote enhanced for effect)

[Hagar]

Us Brits are nothing if not resourceful.

[denishc]

[Hagar]

[quote]

[Hagar]

I found this obituary. It seems that "Stan" Orr died only last year. Another veteran gone.

The Daily Telegraph, 19 August 03, by Telegraph Staff

Commander Stan Orr, DSC : 1916 - 2003

'Commander Stan Orr, who has died aged 86, was one of the Fleet Air Arm's top-scoring aces of the Second World War, during which he was awarded a DSC and two Bars. In December 1940 aircraft flying from Illustrious and Eagle made the Eastern Mediterranean their own, bombing the German army in North Africa and attacking German and Italian airfields. Orr was awarded his first DSC for gallant service against enemy aircraft.'

[denishc]

I found this obituary. It seems that "Stan" Orr died only last year. Another veteran gone.

Yes, another sad loss.