Battle of Britain - the DVD.

[Staiduk]

'lo all!
just got the DVD of my favourite film; I've had the VHS tape for years.
Great film; looks wonderful on DVD, but I must say - who in the HELL did the subtitles for that flick?
Whoever it was; he didn't speak English. Tons of obvious, glaring errors - barely a sentence went by without something silly popping up on the screen. (How do you move engine blocks? The person on film actually said "Get those Bowzers away!") Never managed to get Biggin Hill's name right once during the movie. Same went for the German translation. Anyhoo; all that aside, still a great film; happy to see it in DVD.
I do have a question someone might know:
during the battle scenes; many shots are taken from the bombers' viewpoint. there is a paticular shot used frequently in which one can see the empennage of the camera 'craft. It's literally bristling with antennae, ballons, blisters, etc. Does anyone know offhand what type of aircraft was used as a camera platform and what all that mess hanging off the tail is? Comms of some type; though I can't imagine what the details would be. Obviously not for filming; the film would've been kept in the can until the 'plane was on the ground, so its a bit of a mystery to me.

[Hagar]

I always understood the camera plane was a B-25. It was specially modified & fitted out as a camera ship & used for the Battle of Britain & other British films. It's possible this aircraft is still airworthy. It was dumped at Shoreham Airport & left to rot when I worked there. Same old story - nobody was prepared to pay the ever-increasing parking fees. It was finally dismantled & taken away for restoration, most likely to Duxford. I forget who purchased it & can't find any details right now.

[Staiduk]

Hi Hagar!
They may certainly have used a B-25; but I doubt for that particular shot. (Actually a bunch of shots where the cameraman panned back over the tail.)
The tail is very clearly a standard arrangement with a low horizontal stabilizer. It also look very angular; though with the angle and all the stuff hanging off it; it's hard to tell. None of the shots pan low enough to get a look at the fuselage; even a bit might've helped. A B-26 perhaps? This has got me quite curious now.

[Hagar]

Hi Staiduk. I remember reading an article about the filming a short while ago. Most of the flying sequences were done in Spain with the cooperation of the Spanish Air Force. There might well have been another camera plane. I can't find anything on the web right now so it might have been in a magazine. You've got me interested now too. If I find anything I'll tell you.

[Hagar]

many shots are taken from the bombers' viewpoint. there is a paticular shot used frequently in which one can see the empennage of the camera 'craft. It's literally bristling with antennae, ballons, blisters, etc. Does anyone know offhand what type of aircraft was used as a camera platform and what all that mess hanging off the tail is? Comms of some type;

I was thinking it's quite possible they did some filming from the bombers themselves. These were the Spanish Air Force CASA 2.111, the Spanish-built variant of the He 111 with Merlin engines. This photo is of the CAF CASA 2.111, the only airworthy example of the type in the world until it was unfortunately lost with the crew last year.
That dorsal turret looks like an ideal camera position to me. I believe the CAF example was one of those used in the film.

[Woodlouse2002]

I remember quite a few shots in the Battle of Britain being taken from inside the He111's. So I think thats what your talking about.

[Staiduk]

...and those balls at the tip of the fin (they couldn't possibly be rudder counterweights??) look quite similar to some of the gobbledygook stuck to the tail of our mysterious 'plane. I think you nailed it, Hagar.  ;D
Still doesn't explain the rest of the hardware hanging off the tail.

[Staiduk]

OK - correction to my last. I just (while I was posting that) took another look at the battle over Yorkshire. When the odd equipment came into view; I froze it, zoomed it in and went fram-by-frame. Hagar; you're absolutely right; it is a Heinkel. That stuff isn't on the tail; it's on a mast just abaft the dorsal gun - the zero angle made it look like a very angular fin. So it's a lot smaller than it looks at first; probably about a foot long.
It's not the nav antennae mounted there; but it's in the same spot so it's something likely similar - I don't know what DF equipment looked like in '69 so I can't say.
Kewl - nice bit of detective work, Hagar!

[Hagar]

Hagar; you're absolutely right; it is a Heinkel.

That confirms it then. It did seem the most likely explanation.

That stuff isn't on the tail; it's on a mast just abaft the dorsal gun - the zero angle made it look like a very angular fin. So it's a lot smaller than it looks at first; probably about a foot long.
It's not the nav antennae mounted there; but it's in the same spot so it's something likely similar - I don't know what DF equipment looked like in '69 so I can't say.

The CASA 2.111 aircraft used in the film were either still operational with the Spanish Air Force or recently purchased from the same source. They would most likely have some arrangement of radio aerials. These are usually run over a vertical mast on top of the fuselage with the other end attached to the fin or tailplane. I don't know what sort of navaids they would have been fitted with or if these had been removed from the surplus aircraft before disposal. I assume one of the privately owned examples would have been used for the camera work. It's not clear in my original photo of the CAF example but in recent photos this had a standard unprotected DF loop fitted on top of the rear fuselage. This shot from a different angle shows it more clearly.


The DF loop is usually covered by a fairing on military aircraft. These are all similar in design & much like the one in this photo.


The He 111/CASA 2.111 aircraft used in the BoB film have a checkered history. Some are on static display in various museums around the world. The CAF example in the photos was tragically destroyed in a fatal accident at Cheyenne, Wyoming in July 2003 with the loss of both crew members. This was the last airworthy example of the type in the world. I remember world aerobatic champion Neil Williams & his crew being killed after crashing in the Pyrenees while ferrying another ex-Spanish Air Force example from Spain to England many years ago.

[Staiduk]

Geez; that's too bad - as valuable as the aircraft is; the loss of a good pilot is much worse.

Good info on the DF; it's likely sommat like that (both those you showed are familiar to me; neither match the film). Hopefully there's an article somewhere by someone involved in the production that'd tell us.

[BFMF]

Staiduk, was the VHS edition better then the DVD edition?