A 'curley one' for the Ages

[Professor Brensec]

Here's one that has caused more arguments and trouble than History is really worth, but to History 'pedantics' like myself, everything has to be 'just so!...........'

[Hagar]

Technically I suppose you're correct. As you know, I'm very pedantic myself but this particular debate never really bothered me one way or the other. I didn't hear too many people complaining. Greater minds than mine decided on the date it was celebrated & this was agreed by governments all over the world. That in itself is an amazing achievement & an almost unique event.

Now you mention it, I've always thought of past centuries starting from the 00 date.

PS. Queen Victoria died on 22nd January 1901 & therefore made it into the 20th century. The question is - by how long? Would this still be the case had she died a month earlier - in December 1900? :-/

[Redwing]

When was the end of the 20th century?  

Answer, of course, on the 31st December, 2001.

Is this a typo(?).....don't you mean it ended December 31st, 2000 ?

[Hagar]

Is this a typo(?).....don't you mean it ended December 31st, 2000 ?

I think you're correct but I do understand what Brensec is getting at. I think.

[Professor Brensec]

Is this a typo(?).....don't you mean it ended December 31st, 2000 ?

You'e quite right mate, I've fixed it. In my hast I was thinking of the year this cemtury began, sorry.  ;D an Thanks.

[Professor Brensec]

I know there still alot of people who just can't get their head around it. I usually ask them this:

"When someone pays you $100-00, do you count the last dollar while it's still in their pocket, or do you wait till it's in your hand!!"  ;D

Sometimes, they get the idea.

Others just don't seem to cotton onto the fact that there was no 'year dot'. i.e. "2 BC, 1 BC, 1 AD, 2 AD"
Where's the zero!!  :D

[Hagar]

Well Brensec, as you've already noticed it's easy to get confused when you start thinking about it. You're not the only one as I didn't spot your mistake until Redwing pointed it out. Logically at least, I think it would be much easier for everyone to start each new century with 00 or zero.

Another way to look at it is this. I was born in 1943. Consequently I was 1 year old in 1944. That doesn't mean I didn't exist until 1944. I was 60 years old in 2003. Make what you will of that. Confused yet? I know I am. LOL

[Redwing]

[quote]

You'e quite right mate, I've fixed it. In my hast I was thinking of the year this cemtury began, sorry.

[Felix/FFDS]

Anyway, you're right about all the big hoopla for the new millenium---it took place a year early!

Of course, that was only the "Common Era" millenium, and according to a generally accepted convention.  Per the Julian calendar, it would have occured a bit earlier.

Then again, what's the fuss about the "21st century"?  Isn't the Jewish calendar into its 60th century?

[WebbPA]

There being no year 0 the 21st century started on January 1, 2001.  At least I have some quasi-scientific support for this position http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/mil2000.html

This date, of course, springs from an arbitrary calculation of Christ's birth and attempts to calculate the date from that point on.

The Hebrew calendar would appear to be more accurate since it calculates the date from the creation of the world.  This is a lunar calendar, however, and  regardless of any divine inspiration becomes quickly outdated over a period of a mere few hundred years.

The Julian calendar is more accurate, amounting to an error of only 10 days over 1700 years from the arbitrary date of Christ's birth.

The modern Gregorian calendar corrects the errors of the Julian calendar and, after subtracting 10 days somewhere around 1700 http://es.rice.edu/ES/humsoc/Galileo/Th ... endar.html  
brings us to our current dating system.

So what was the hoopla on 12/31/99?  It was fun.  Would you rather see your automobiile turn over 999,999,999 or 000,000,001?

[Professor Brensec]

That's the whole point (the car bit, I mean), which Hagar also referred to with his age.

The car started it's life at 000000 miles, and Hagar started his life at 0 years, 0 months and 0 Days etc.
When Hagar turned 1, he had been alive for 1 full year.  ;D

Unfortunately, someone, and I have no idea who, decided to call the first 12 months immediately after the YOOL, as the year 1 AD (probably some Roman idiot!!  :D  When it was really year 'dot', nix, nada, bupcus etc .

So consequently we now celebrate the finish of our decades and centuries at the end of the 9th and 99th year instead of the end of the 10th or 100th.
It really should be remedied!!..............lol  ;D

By the way Webb, I'm not entirely sure what the significance of the Jewish calender is, but I seriously doubt it's the 'creation of the world'. The world has been around a little longer than 6000 years or so.......  ;D
I have quite a good Tora. One of about three in the whole of Australia

I think it counts from Noah (that would be around the right time) or perhaps some other significant 'start over point' for humanity.  ;D

I have a really good Tora. One of onlt about 6 in the whole of Australia...............lol  ;D ( A joke, we don't have a very large population of Jews, in fact most Australians have never met one!).
I'll have to check and see if there's anything in there about the beginning of "recorded" time.
Either that, or pop along to one of the three or four Synagogues in the whole of Sydney, and ask the Rabbi.  ;)

[Hagar]

I really can't see the point of worrying about all this now. The new century is well under way & the event was duly celebrated all over the world. Apparently all the world leaders interested in celebrating this event agreed to do so on the same day. I watched the firework displays from various different countries on TV & can confirm this. I'm almost certain I won't be here to worry about the next one.

PS. I still can't see why the year dot cannot be represented by 0 or zero. In this case there is no valid argument anyway.

[WebbPA]

As a goy living in South Florida I've run into the Hebrew calendar a few times.  Jewish New Year is a legal holiday here.

The date is in years from the creation of the world.  The new year, however, does not begin on the first day of the first month but from some date near the Egyptian liberation.  If that's not confusing enough it's a lunar calendar which is about the most inaccurate type of calendar that can be devised.

http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm

[Hagar]

You guys have lost me. I thought the new year we were discussing is the one recognised by most countries in the the western world. This was originally a Christian concept & based on a birth date which is by no means accurate. We are now in 2004 AD (anno domini) or the Year of Our Lord. I don't see what the Jewish New Year has to do with it. The Chinese New Year is different again & based on astronomical observations of the movement of the Sun, Moon and stars. This is considered the most accurate.

When is the Chinese New Year's Day in Year 2004?
January 22, 2004. This is the first day in the Year of the Monkey.
It is Year 4701 by Chinese calendar.

I'm no mathemetician or theologian but I don't need to be. Birthdays & anniversaries are calculated from 0 or zero so why should centuries based on an obscure date be any different? It must have been agreed at some point that the year starts on January 1st rather than December 25th & ends on December 31st. I assume this was done mainly for convenience. If the centuries are calculated from Jan 1st 00 -

[WebbPA]

Long story short.  We all know the real millenium started on 01/01/01.   But that's no fun because there is no threat of a global computer meltdown on that date.  The theortical meltdown would occur on  01/01/00.  It's just a more fun date and most people don't (didn't) know the difference.