Flying lessons (advice, locations, etc)

[machineman9]

A PPL may not necessarily give you too much extra in an application, certainly professionally. It may be seen as an indicator (albeit quite a pricey one) of you motivation however. Beware though, as you may fine them very "cool" about any ambitions to be an RAF pilot, as currently recruitment is minimal, or maybe more accurately, zero, into the pilot branch, and is likely to be so until 2013/14 give or take. That said, the upper age limit is 24.5 IIRC, so you've a bit of time in hand, and could "easily" wait that long if necessary.

Well it would certainly do no harm to be qualified beforehand. It's something I need to check with them. At the very least, it could make the training stages a little less taxing if I already had a firm grasp on it all already. Clearly I won't learn all the neccesaries of an RAF pilot through PPL, but it would make me a lot more experienced and confident at flying compared to just strolling in without it. And I suppose it would be useful even if I didn't make the cut, for my own personal leisure.

Blargh, there are too many considerations 

[C]

Well it would certainly do no harm to be qualified beforehand. It's something I need to check with them. At the very least, it could make the training stages a little less taxing if I already had a firm grasp on it all already.

No, it probably won't do any harm, and yes, it may let you feel a little more comfortable at a later stage in more basic elements of Elementary Flying Training - although that said you'd need to treat it as though you were still about to do effects of controls for the first time to learn "the RAF" way.

Anyway, that aside, it's your money! (1500hrs, don't think I've paid for any of them (yet), which has been a stroke of luck);)

[SaultFresh]

Now, my only thought there is that they may look at the PPL and already have expectations of you, or they may feel that it may cost too much money to retrain you to their standards, and fix any bad habits you may have developed from a poor instructor, but chances are they'll think that you need less training when compared to someone who has never flown before, since you would already have your license. So, I do not know how the RAF would look at it, but it could go either way.

[machineman9]

The airline floodgates are about the open too. BA Sponsorship back on after a decade! Hooray for a more selective airline pilot pipeline - only a good thing for the customer.

My mother burst in earlier to let me know that she saw that in the paper  I might as well give that a shot too. It sure ain't a military career, but it is still something.

[C]

The airline floodgates are about the open too. BA Sponsorship back on after a decade! Hooray for a more selective airline pilot pipeline - only a good thing for the customer.

My mother burst in earlier to let me know that she saw that in the paper

[machineman9]

6 hours until A level results are revealed, and my elegibility will be determined. Not nervous at all...  :-/ :-?

[Mictheslik]

So how did you do? 

Come to Liverpool and train with the big boys....LFS is a nice school too 

Hawarden is a nice airfield.....just be prepared for me to come and steal circuit time when Liverpool's too busy 

.mic

[machineman9]

A - Design Technology
B - Electronics
E - Physics

But I plan to go back and do another year... Hopefully get in AS Mathematics with mechanics, and resit both years of physics at the same time to improve my entire grade.

Cosford flying club have admittance based on an interview (as they're tri service, which also prevents them from making public price lists). But when I emailed them they said that I should be able to use my uncle's service number for a famil and friends discount. So hopefully I will go along next Saturday to have a poke around, and I would like to be flying by the start of October... After having a poke around the other places too 

[machineman9]

I spoke to Cosford Powered Flying School and they gave me the following advice:

GET.... AVIATION... RELATED... DEGREE!


So despite a slight lack in interest in university for the past few years, I've finally found a university which makes sense; Aston University for Mechanical Engineering (BEng Hons) which I will try and start next September, provided I get the grades this year.


Futhermore, they are connected with the Cosford UAS (Birmingham University Air Squadron) so I will be able to fly for free, and raise a rank in the RAF if I decide to procceed down that path!


Bit of a shame that I didn't learn about that university sooner; the price boundaries mean that it will cost

[C]

I spoke to Cosford Powered Flying School and they gave me the following advice:

GET.... AVIATION... RELATED... DEGREE!

Mmm, maybe - if it's the right thing for you to do.

Futhermore, they are connected with the Cosford UAS (Birmingham University Air Squadron) so I will be able to fly for free, and raise a rank in the RAF if I decide to procceed down that path!

That's the simple way of looking at it, and the way I went in. However, it's worth having a look at the sums and practicalities - graduating Initial Officer Training as a Flying Officer as opposed to a Pilot Officer is no justification alone for spending 3 years at university, and of course, the UAS no longer "saves" a year or so of your career by getting Elementary Flying Training out of the way (as it did "in my day"!). UAS selection is also exceptionally competitive and should not be taken as a given. When I was involved we had to turn away some exceptional candidates. It also, as I'm sure you're aware, doesn't guarantee a place at Cranwell thereafter.

As an idea of entry though, if you went in direct, you'd do 3 years as a Plt Off, followed by 2 as a Fg Off. Promotion to Flt Lt (the last time served based promotion) at year 5. At the moment I suspect you'd be looking at 18 months before there's a hope of getting in though - that said, you can work in the short term whilst applying and/or waiting.

Going in with a normal (3 year) degree, has you graduating as a Fg Off from Cranwell, then (as aircrew), promotion to Flt Lt after two years (one year with a 4 year degree).

If you look at it purely from a financial point of view, over the 5 years you end up about the same rank, but in the former case, having earned for 5 years (probably about

[machineman9]

Haha, I know it's not a simple procedure of walk in and get better epaulettes, but it's a fair enough justification of what the UAS can offer you if you turn it into a military career (provided you give the correct service in response).

One of the major reasons they gave for going to university was the backup strategy. If I fail my medical at any given time, then I will need to go to university anyway. They gave me a 2 year approximate waiting list for pilot recruitment when I went to Careers. This carries several considerations, however:

If it is 2 years until the first intake, how long until the next intake? I am 18.5 years old now. I would be 20.5 when their estimated time came around, and I would be 22.5 if I went to university. The RAF have a max age limit for IOT start date of 25 at the moment for pilots. It is not a large window of opportunity.

If I went to university, I would apply to the UAS, and if that was succesful, that could earn me a little of dollar, but it would negate the need to go for a PPL (which still isn't essential, but it is something nice to have)

If I go to university, I remain a lot more employable if my master plan fails. The BA scholarship would be a viable option too! The RAF medic chap I spoke to at Cosford said that I should look for transport pilot, as an ATPL conversion and civil flying after my service is a strong possibility. Yet again, it heavily remains down to what the RAF can offer me, if anything. I haven't even signed the paperwork and I already feel as if my life is their puppet

[C]

All valid thoughts. I'll reply to a few specific points, again, just as food for thought, and having had the benefit of 20:20 hindsight from my own experience! A couple are for clarification.

If it is 2 years until the first intake, how long until the next intake?

That is due to the current freeze on pilot recruitment, due to the redundancy of 170 student pilots. After that, it is expected the system will return to normal (ie, be an ongoing through put).

I am 18.5 years old now. I would be 20.5 when their estimated time came around, and I would be 22.5 if I went to university. The RAF have a max age limit for IOT start date of 25 at the moment for pilots. It is not a large window of opportunity.

So going to uni potentially could shorten that window?

If I went to university, I would apply to the UAS, and if that was succesful, that could earn me a little of dollar, but it would negate the need to go for a PPL (which still isn't essential, but it is something nice to have)

Yep, you'll get some flying - better flying than you would with a PPL. It can also count towards the PPL to, although now you just about get the hours for an NPPL. You'd probably break even financially with the UAS. The cash they give you will cover the beer money, socialising etc. It's great fun though.

If I go to university, I remain a lot more employable if my master plan fails. The BA scholarship would be a viable option too! The RAF medic chap I spoke to at Cosford said that I should look for transport pilot, as an ATPL conversion and civil flying after my service is a strong possibility.

Don't tell recruitment you want to be a multis pilot - and definately don't say that's what a medic said ! I did that (how prophetic) - they want you to aim for the top - or at least pretend to. As for Uni as a back up plan; maybe at the moment it has a little more validity due to the 2 year gap, but, that said, what's stopping you going to uni later on, if a direct RAF route didn't work out? You probably go with some extra cash too. Just a thought.

I would like to go to the right university, for sure. This one seems to press all the buttons. They have a good connection with the Defence Technical Undergraduate Scheme (which could mean bursaries) and from their website, the UAS takes 100 applications and enrols 30-40 of those each year. Reasonable odds.

DTUS, IIRC, recruits/sponsors engineering candidates. Sponsorship for aircrew is very rare these days. As for the UAS, I suspect BUAS has more than 100 applicants per year. They may interview that many, but initial candidates are probably double or treble that. In the smaller UAS I was involved with, I think it was about 200/20, so 1 in 10.

[quote]It's incredibly difficult to plan so far in ahead. Particularly in this economic and political state. Jobs are not required, so you really do have to tick every single box. I may miss one opportunity at some point, but by and large I think I am headed in the right direction into an aviation career and towards a pilot for whichever airline

[machineman9]

My uncle took the option of joining as a junior rank, and then went for his comission and became an ATC. I raised the point when I went to Careers, and they said that they're currently not allowing any cross-branch conversions, and although it's always possible, they said that I may well be stuck with my other role for quite some time! Plus, they said that the interview to become an officer would be harder and that I would come under much more scrutiny because I should know better from having served, compared to a civilian.


I'm not sure if I would even be able to convert... Does the age limit still apply of 25 even if you're already serving and wish to convert?

All in all, I think the risk of being stuck with the 'wrong' job is a real threat, and that discourages me. I have that current problem where I work at the moment    Quick... Bail out! 

[C]

. I raised the point when I went to Careers, and they said that they're currently not allowing any cross-branch conversions

'Cos they're currently not accepting any pilot applications/entrants until 2013

I'm not sure if I would even be able to convert... Does the age limit still apply of 25 even if you're already serving and wish to convert?

No

[machineman9]

Hmmm, how long would it take to go from a successful interview to IOT?

I contacted the university that I wish to go to, and it was clear that their entry requirements were not entirely clear. In short, I will need to go to college (or some education) for the next two academic years before I can go to university. I'm really rather annoyed.


I guess it would be possible to start some of the recruitment process whilst at uni though, wouldn't it? For example, the interviews and OASC stuff would take a few days out of my university time. So I could get some of the work done whilst I'm in education... Right? Please be a 'right!'