New Rules...

[Fozzer]

New rules...

Clearance to taxi...>>>

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/clearance ... re-complex

No more; "Look left...look right....all clear....over we go!"... ...!

Paul..... 8-)...!

[ShaneG_old]

Somehow, I get the feeling this will cause more problems than it ever solves.

[DaveSims]

This new rule is to help reduce the number of runway incursions.  There have been a number of close calls due to aircraft or vehicles entering runways they were not supposed to.  The FAA figures if they require an actual clearance to cross a runway, it will reduce the confusion a little, plus it will also make the controllers be that much more aware that an aircraft will be crossing a runwy.  Some of the incidents occured because an aircraft or vehicle was told to taxi to the ramp or runway, and the controller just didn't notice that route would require crossing an active runway.   I have to admit, when I am taxiing at a controlled field, I often ask for clarification before crossing a runway, even though it used to be implied that you were clear to cross. 

[ShaneG_old]

At small airfields, I can see how this would work, and work well,  but what about the larger, busier airports?

Human error is bound to get involved... it always does.

Not saying it's a bad idea, it's just that you often hear about how controllers are over-stressed as it is,
and adding more to their existing workload seems odd,
unless they're going to hire a bunch more workers to handle runway crossing clearance.

[DaveSims]

[quote]
At small airfields, I can see how this would work, and work well,

[olderndirt]

The FAA, in all its glory - new rules, written by legal experts with CYA as their primary objective.  No worries, the controllers and pilots will make it work - they always have.

[beaky]

[quote]The FAA, in all its glory - new rules, written by legal experts with CYA as their primary objective.

[expat]

So, just so I am clear on this. In the past a controller gave verbal permission to cross and active and now, a pilot can cross like crossing a street, that being look, if it is clear then over you go??
How many pedestrians are knocked down by cars each year? Well only the number of go-arounds produced by this will say if it is a success or not and by then it may be a little too late. I pitty the first poor B'stard who gets it wrong, the FAA will treat him like an international terrorist, not to mention the press coverage.

Matt

[beaky]

So, just so I am clear on this. In the past a controller gave verbal permission to cross and active and now, a pilot can cross like crossing a street, that being look, if it is clear then over you go??

No, it's the other way around, sort of...
Previously, if issued a taxi clearance that involved crossing any runway, you did not have to hold short of any runway unless specifically told to. Obviously, if it involved crossing an active runway, one might be asked to hold short, but not always... in the interest of keeping things moving, a controller might have let you just roll across, assuming there's no conflict (apparent to the controller).

Now everybody's going to have to stop and wait until cleared to cross.
That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but my point was that it probably won't help, because clearance or no, the pilot has to verify that it's safe to cross...  that's what has been at the heart of every incursion.
Giving controllers direct control of all runway crossings could lead to more of this lassitude on the part of pilots, which would make things worse. There's no way a new rule will somehow make controllers less likely to screw up, and in a way, this new rule gives them more opportunities to do so. Same thing goes for pilots, obviously.

[Sir_Crashalot]

It might be a stupid idea but why are there no traffic lights at runway crossings? I mean it works with normal traffic so why would it not work on an airfield?

Carlo (Not Einstein, but close...)

[expat]

It might be a stupid idea but why are there no traffic lights at runway crossings? I mean it works with normal traffic so why would it not work on an airfield?

Carlo (Not Einstein, but close...)

The Royal Air Force uses that system to let vehicles cross at the ends of the runway or where approaches and roads come close together. It works, so a valid question Crash.

Matt

[DaveSims]

It might be a stupid idea but why are there no traffic lights at runway crossings? I mean it works with normal traffic so why would it not work on an airfield?

Carlo (Not Einstein, but close...)

There is a new system in the works that detects if an aircraft is approaching or using a runway, and can activate warning lights to let other pilots know.  It is still in the development phase.

[olderndirt]

Having worked ground control many times in zero zero conditions, before the advent of ground radar, let me just inject that, while short-stopping all aircraft enroute to the departure runway may sound like the safest answer, I suspect there is a real potential for chaos.

[beaky]

[quote]Having worked ground control many times in zero zero conditions, before the advent of ground radar, let me just inject that, while short-stopping all aircraft enroute to the departure runway may sound like the safest answer, I suspect there is a real potential for chaos.

[SaultFresh]

If I understand this correctly, it's not really a new rule. They're just adapting the one here in Canada. From my understanding, the ground clearance would sound something like "Taxi Alpha across 22 for 32" Where the runway you're expecting to take off from is 32, and the one you had to cross is 22. If that's what is now being enforced in the US, then it's not so bad. It has been in Canada for at least as long as I have been flying, which is coming up on 4 years now.