FAA rules

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FAA rules

Postby skoker » Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:15 pm

Do you think that 1500 hours will really make a difference?  I don't think that it will affect the airline safety at all.  What do you think?

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=75246
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Re: FAA rules

Postby Brett_Henderson » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:16 pm

The problem with hourly requirements, is that they're not a consistent barometer.. but of course we need some sort of minimum.

Personally, I'd like the hourly requirements to be so high, that it eclipses any grey area. I'm talking about 2500 or more hours, before even being a first officer on a Dash-8. In other words, make the bar so high that it takes the cost of it out of the hands of the would-be pilot, and places it in the hands of the airlines. Make it so that they have no choice but to commit huge sums for training new pilots. It wouldn't effect competitiveness, because they'd all have to do it.

And while we're at it.. dramatically increase maintenance standards too. Obviously, this will increase ticket prices, and that will result in less people flying.. less crowded airways and less crowded airports...

It's safer AND greener
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Re: FAA rules

Postby specter177 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:32 pm

Does this mean that you need 1500 to get a commercial license, or just to fly commuter or airliners? It doesn't matter how many hours you have, 500 or so should be enough to prove whether or not you are a good pilot.
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Re: FAA rules

Postby Tyler012 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:35 pm

Is there not a class room hours requirement?
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Re: FAA rules

Postby specter177 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:43 pm

The problem is, 1500 hours is a MASSIVE amount of time. To get that many hours just for something as simple as a commercial license, if that is what this rule is saying, is idiotic. Better to say that a copilot or commuter pilot needs to have an ATP, and allow us that want a commecial without wanting to fly airlines to get it with only the current 250 hours. 1500 hours is 8 hours of flying every day for 6 months.
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Re: FAA rules

Postby DaveSims » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:25 pm

The problem is, how do you get those hours?  Most private pilots will never attain that.  Currently, and in the past, pilots built time flight instructing, or flying light aircraft for hire. 

I have two major problems with this new legislation.  The first is the fact that this is a knee-jerk reaction to the Colgan air crash by politicians.  They all seem to have missed the fact, that the pilot of that plane had 5000+ hours. 

My second problem also addressed the Colgan incident.  The pilot had 5000+ hours, but killed himself and the passengers in something that even a private pilot should have recognized, a stall.  The FDR clearly shows, the pilot panicked and yanked back on the stick, and held it there all the way down.  The 5000 hours he had, were probably all the same, take off, autopilot, land...etc.  That is where using hours as a measure of experience is a major failure.  I know pilots that have under 1000 hours, but those hours are all spent learning, and the pilots are very, very good.  Then you have pilots with thousands of hours, most of which is spent zoned out letting the autopilot fly.  Those have quit learning, and are just "driving the bus". 

The truth is, if they really wanted to prevent another Colgan, is to overhaul airline training, and to strip some power from the pilot's union.  The captain of that flight, should have never been hired, and should have been fired long before he got the chance to kill anyone.  He failed multiple checkrides and was frequently noted for his lack of professionalism.  With as many pilots as there are looking for jobs, there is no room to accept a mediocre, even a troublesome, pilot.
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Re: FAA rules

Postby Brett_Henderson » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:33 pm

These are good discussions to help illustrate how gradually lowered standards can creep up on us. What we've let happen over the years, points out how profit comes before safety.

When I was young, I had to rule out becoming an airline pilot, because I wore glasses  :o

And even if I had perfect vision; I'd have had to go the military route before even thinking about applying with an airline.

So.. we've gone from miltary officers with several THOUSAND hours as the bare minimum for first officer.. to anybody who could round themselves up a simple 250 hour commercial ticket.. a dozen multi-engine hours, and a willingness to work for less than a fast-food manager.  ::) ... all because the airlines were fighting to put more jets in the sky. And then add in how this profit attitude effects maintenance.

The economy is going to take care of this problem. Flying business is falling, and will continue to fall. Natural seniority selection is gonna raise the average experience level.. and it's a good time to raise the rules, too.
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Re: FAA rules

Postby beaky » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:53 pm

The article, in typically ignorant style, refers to "commercial airline pilots." What they mean is "ATPs" also known as "air transport pilots" or "airline pilots".

There's no such thing as a "non-commercial airline", and an airliner or its PIC is not defined by type, they are defined by the phrase "carrying passengers or freight for hire or compensation on scheduled routes."

A pilot could get a 747 type rating and just fly his friends around in it for fun without holding an ATP.

On the other hand, if you want to offer three scheduled runs
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Re: FAA rules

Postby Brett_Henderson » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:02 pm

Here's a humorous reference. A good friend of mine (held my hand through instrument training, and got me right seat rides in a KingAir C90, and a Citation 560), was qualified to sit right seat for a regional airline, BEFORE he was qualified to rent the club's C310
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Re: FAA rules

Postby beaky » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:06 pm

[quote]Here's a humorous reference. A good friend of mine (held my hand through instrument training, and got me left seat rides in a KingAir C90, and a Citation 560), was qualified to sit right seat for a regional airline, BEFORE he was qualified to rent the club's C310
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Re: FAA rules

Postby Brett_Henderson » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:11 pm

More vein.. same club..  An old-school, god-knows-how-many-hours, airline captain rented a Cessna 210...  landed with the gear up  >:(

(said he was too used to the first-officer handling the gear..lol )
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Re: FAA rules

Postby skoker » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:16 pm

[quote]More vein.. same club..
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Re: FAA rules

Postby beaky » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:50 am

[quote][quote]More vein.. same club..
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Re: FAA rules

Postby DaveSims » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:19 am

I still think the problem they are looking to fix lies in the airline's training programs.  I honestly think when you get hired for an airline position, you are required to take a drug test and get a partial lobotomy.  I have seen more stupid actions out of airline pilots in my career than I have in private or other forms, including watching a Saab 340 takeoff with a 15 knot direct tailwind, and using up all of the runway.
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Re: FAA rules

Postby Brett_Henderson » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:10 am

[quote]I still think the problem they are looking to fix lies in the airline's training programs.
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