Colgan Air Continental 3407 NTSB Report

[BSW727]

Aircrew screwed up big time on this one. I remember one of the first things I was taught in primary flight training was that the stick goes FORWARD at the onset of a stall.

[skoker]

Being from Buffalo, I feel sorry for the  families, but yet, the only solution to the problem is to stop hiring incompetent people!

[DaveSims]

[quote]Being from Buffalo, I feel sorry for the

[RitterKreuz]

There definitely is not a pilot shortage, so the airlines should be able to be a little more demanding of the qualifications of their pilots.

They can demand all they want.

truth is, experienced, competent pilots are not willing to fly 14 hour duty days 5 days a week for $18,500 a year.

why bust your arse doing that when you could just as easily go make that money at Taco Bell as a shift manager???

thats why you see a lot of wet behind the ears children walking around in airline uniforms.

I managed to last on the job a little over 3 years...

I realized that with a 10-12 year upgrade time, and working all but 8 or 9 days of the month for a whopping $20K a year wasnt going to do it for this hoss.

they can plow a hundred of those puddle jumpers into the ground and kill millions of people - the story will not change so long as the pay does not change.

congress needs to step up... set the airline hiring minimum to 1,500 hours and an ATP certificate... and set the MINIMUM PAY to $40K annual salary or greater.

anything less and your skilled pilots with respectable hours and experience are going to fill seats elsewhere.

next time you climb aboard a regional flight... think about the kid at the controls... there is a fair chance he is fresh out of flight school with less than 500 hours

[DaveSims]

There definitely is not a pilot shortage, so the airlines should be able to be a little more demanding of the qualifications of their pilots.

They can demand all they want.

truth is, experienced, competent pilots are not willing to fly 14 hour duty days 5 days a week for $18,500 a year.

why bust your arse doing that when you could just as easily go make that money at Taco Bell as a shift manager???

thats why you see a lot of wet behind the ears children walking around in airline uniforms.

I managed to last on the job a little over 3 years...

I realized that with a 10-12 year upgrade time, and working all but 8 or 9 days of the month for a whopping $20K a year wasnt going to do it for this hoss.

they can plow a hundred of those puddle jumpers into the ground and kill millions of people - the story will not change so long as the pay does not change.

congress needs to step up... set the airline hiring minimum to 1,500 hours and an ATP certificate... and set the MINIMUM PAY to $40K annual salary or greater.

anything less and your skilled pilots with respectable hours and experience are going to fill seats elsewhere.

next time you climb aboard a regional flight... think about the kid at the controls... there is a fair chance he is fresh out of flight school with less than 500 hours

As the FAA administrator said last night on C-Span, it wasn't just a case of inexperience, but of a bad pilot.  The captain on the flight had over 5300 hours total time, yet he had failed numerous check rides at Colgan and his prior airline.  There are low time pilots that are probably more capable and more dedicated to aviation than this guy was.  Hours in the logbook don't mean a lot, the Air Force has pilots flying multi-million dollar space age aircraft in combat by themselves, with just a few hundred hours total time, yet a 5000+ hour pilot managed to simply stall his commuter and panic.

[SaultFresh]

Wow... I can't really say I fully saw that coming. I mean, I had my own thoughts on it, but I suppose the NTSB would know better, I mean... I surely never investigated it, haha. I had a sneaking suspicion that the ice had built up on the tail to the point that there was a tail stall, which, from what I've been told would show about the same as a normal stall, with a completely different recovery. Anyhow, that's what I thought the cause would've been, but I'm not an investigator. Also, how can such a poor pilot manage to keep a job?

[RitterKreuz]

how can such a poor pilot manage to keep a job?

where i worked... you bust a ride, you have to speak with the training director. If the training director elected to give you another shot and you failed again, you proceed directly to the chief pilot's office, turn in your books and badges and hit the bricks because buddy... you just lost your job.

sometimes thats just that... but sometimes...

Your union... then puts their heads together and says that you failed the check ride because of a number of factors outside of your control...

1. You had been extended into your days off to work a schedule that was never yours to begin with...

2. as a result of that you never did manage to commute home for any time off between your work week and your recurrent checking event

3. they further argue that because of these factors, not only were you fatigued, but you had no time to study between getting off your extended trip at 2200 hours and having to show up for a recurrent checking event at 0600 the next day... therefore it was unreasonable for the airline to expect you to be prepared, let alone fit for a checking event under those circumstances.

the airline caves in, and you get another shot.

this time, you pass.

you get your job back like nothing ever happened.

The union system is designed to protect pilots from EXACTLY the situation that just played out above. I have known good pilots... GREAT pilots... who have experienced exactly that situation.

you push a guy to minimum rest, maximum legal work over 6 days of long trips with short layovers, and give him no down time, then... you schedule him for a check ride on a day that he wouldn't even legally be allowed to fly an airplane anyway.... not only that, but you expect this person to pass under the threat of being fired if they dont??