Two die in mid-air glider collision

[machineman9]

I had a quick scan but couldn't see anything about this.

Two die in mid air glider collision


Pilot of the glider is thought to have landed using their parachute. One cadet an an RAF Reservist weren't so lucky.


It hasn't been brilliant for cadets in the past few months. Thoughts go to all involved. They died doing something amazing.

[Anxyous]

2009 has been such a bad year for aviation so far

My thoughts go out to all those involved...

[machineman9]

Yeah there have been some bad moments in the last few months.


I believe with the last crash, the two Tutors, there was a bit of talk about halting flights and things. With this second crash I can only hope they start to look even more at what is happening and hopefully prevent it in the future. Some things are accidental, but there are always precautions to take. As much as I enjoy flying with cadets, I'd rather they stop flights for a month and fix any problems that may have resulted in these recent events and then continue, rather than just carry on with chances of it happening again.

[beaky]

Some things are accidental, but there are always precautions to take.

I get what you are saying... but let's face it, every aviation accident begins with an error of some kind. They're all preventable.
This doesn't necessarily mean they can do more than they are already to promote safe procedures, but the worst possible response is to be fatalistic about it. "Their number just came up" is, to me, the flipside of "it can't happen to me"... equally useless, and ultimately dangerous.

[C]

As much as I enjoy flying with cadets, I'd rather they stop flights for a month and fix any problems that may have resulted in these recent events and then continue, rather than just carry on with chances of it happening again.

Sadly, stopping flying would achieve nothing, other than 100% safety. Whilst the January incident was unfortunate, I suspect this one will reinforce the argument that in today's busy airspace, all users should use a transponder with a height readout capability. Having flown at weekends around the home counties, and had to avoid numerous gliders and light aircraft, who we either spot with Mk1 eyeball, or with direction from ATC ("Contact 11 o'clock, no height information" etc etc), this thing is waiting to happen.

[expat]

As much as I enjoy flying with cadets, I'd rather they stop flights for a month and fix any problems that may have resulted in these recent events and then continue, rather than just carry on with chances of it happening again.

Sadly, stopping flying would achieve nothing, other than 100% safety. Whilst the January incident was unfortunate, I suspect this one will reinforce the argument that in today's busy airspace, all users should use a transponder with a height readout capability. Having flown at weekends around the home counties, and had to avoid numerous gliders and light aircraft, who we either spot with Mk1 eyeball, or with direction from ATC ("Contact 11 o'clock, no height information" etc etc), this thing is waiting to happen.

TCAS would be the answer. Getting to be pretty standard in GA in the USA. Friend of mine uses one and it is the size of a cigarette packed. OK it does not have resolution ability and it only has an LED panel that gives you a direction of conflict, but it is better than nothing. It would be great if everyone had a transponder, but 99% of the time, gliders are in uncontrolled airspace as are pleasure flights on a Sunday afternoon.

Matt

[C]

As much as I enjoy flying with cadets, I'd rather they stop flights for a month and fix any problems that may have resulted in these recent events and then continue, rather than just carry on with chances of it happening again.

Sadly, stopping flying would achieve nothing, other than 100% safety. Whilst the January incident was unfortunate, I suspect this one will reinforce the argument that in today's busy airspace, all users should use a transponder with a height readout capability. Having flown at weekends around the home counties, and had to avoid numerous gliders and light aircraft, who we either spot with Mk1 eyeball, or with direction from ATC ("Contact 11 o'clock, no height information" etc etc), this thing is waiting to happen.

TCAS would be the answer. Getting to be pretty standard in GA in the USA. Friend of mine uses one and it is the size of a cigarette packed. OK it does not have resolution ability and it only has an LED panel that gives you a direction of conflict, but it is better than nothing. It would be great if everyone had a transponder, but 99% of the time, gliders are in uncontrolled airspace as are pleasure flights on a Sunday afternoon.

Don't you only appear on TCAS if you have a transponder? Some gliders do, and they're the easier ones to spot. Some light aircraft don't even seem to bother, and it's left to some poor controller looking at dozens of blips on a radar screen of which he has little idea of altitude.

[machineman9]

TCAS communicates between all aircraft with an appropriate transponder, yes.

But I think anything like this, for what it is worth, should be implemented where possible. Even financially speaking, just from a quick look, TCAS can cost about

[beaky]

TCAS might help, but it's a double-edged sword... in busy terminal environments, pilots often get so used to the damn thing warning them constantly about aircraft they already see, or aircraft that ATC has pointed out already, that they start to ignore it. Collisions have in fact occurred in good weather between TCAS-equipped aircraft under ATC control.

Either that or they end up focusing too much on it when they should just be looking outside... sometimes I think the first 30 hours of training should be done in an aircraft with nothing but an altimeter, clock, and yaw string... less distractions that way.

[C]

Either that or they end up focusing too much on it when they should just be looking outside... sometimes I think the first 30 hours of training should be done in an aircraft with nothing but an altimeter, clock, and yaw string... less distractions that way.

Tutor's relatively simple - the most advanced thing is a GPS.

Sadly UK airspace is very very congested, both controlled airspace and uncontrolled. It's time all users had to fit a transponder to allow ATC to do their job and provide the appropriate service.