Rio flight missing?

[Excalibur372]

It's so amazing how big jets like airbus can be brought down by nature. We try to make planes so safe these days. So sad.

[expat]

Update:

Doomed Air France Flight 447's last terrifying few minutes in the air have already been pieced together by accident investigators.
Aviation sources in France said automated messages sent by the plane's systems had allowed them to reconstruct events which appeared to show the Airbus broke up in mid-air as it flew through a hugely violent storm carrying 228 people from Rio to Paris.

The pilot sent a manual signal at 11pm local time saying he was flying through an area of CBs - electrically charged cumulonimbus clouds that come with violent winds and lightning.
Satellite data has shown that towering thunderheads were sending 100 mph updraft winds into the jet's flight path at the time, several hundred miles of the coast of Brazil.

Ten minutes later, a cascade of problems began: automatic messages to Air France HQ indicate the autopilot had disengaged, a key computer system switched to alternative power, and controls needed to keep the plane stable had been damaged. An alarm sounded indicating the deterioration of flight systems.

Three minutes after that, more automatic messages reported the failure of systems to monitor air speed, altitude and direction. Control of the main flight computer and wing spoilers failed as well. The last automatic message, at 11.14pm, signalled loss of cabin pressure and complete electrical failure - catastrophic events in a plane that was likely already plunging toward the ocean.

The French accident investigation agency, BEA, refused to comment on the findings, as did Brazil's defence minister Nelson Jobim who said the "investigation is being done by France; Brazil's only responsibility is to find and pick up the pieces".

Meanwhile, the pilot of a Spanish airliner flying near where the Airbus is believed to have gone down reported seeing a bright flash of white light that quickly plunged to the ocean, said a spokesman for the Spanish airline Air Comet.

"Suddenly, off in the distance, we observed a strong and bright flash of white light that took a downward and vertical trajectory and vanished in six seconds," the pilot wrote in a report for the airline and Spanish civil aviation authorities.

The Spanish plane was flying from Lima, Peru to Madrid. The pilot said he heard no emergency calls.

I am rather interested to know, how a aircraft suffering "catastrophic electrical failure" was able to still send out so much information. The system that sends this information is done via the ACARS computer and uses if memory serves, VHF on radio mode control panel three. If no other radios were working, why was this one, it all goes through the same boxes and antennas? The BEA have a habit of telling the story that Air France want to tell :-?

Matt

[The-Black-Sheep]

I actually wondered about the ACARS myself. You're correct in saying it is sent over VHF...so damn...I'm confused now aswell  :-/

Alec

[DaveSims]

Sounds like now they aren't even sure they found the wreckage, just a bunch of trash floating around the ocean.  Maybe it was hijacked and few to Africa or remote South America and hidden.

[pete]

Sounds like now they aren't even sure they found the wreckage, just a bunch of trash floating around the ocean.  Maybe it was hijacked and few to Africa or remote South America and hidden.

Well it would have been on radar if it had  ....


The thing that strikes me is .. It did not apparently 'land' (ditch) on the ocean   - so we can only assume a crash - which would mean a catastrophic breakup on impact  - & a whole pile of stuff in an aircraft will float - lots of foam, insulation, rubbers, plastics, etc.

Hopefully we will find out more soon ..

[Rocket_Bird]

I am rather interested to know, how a aircraft suffering "catastrophic electrical failure" was able to still send out so much information. The system that sends this information is done via the ACARS computer and uses if memory serves, VHF on radio mode control panel three. If no other radios were working, why was this one, it all goes through the same boxes and antennas? The BEA have a habit of telling the story that Air France want to tell :-?

Matt

Yes.. that is curious indeed, though would not the batteries or the ram air turbine (if there was electrical failure) to supply enough power for VHF or SATCOM to operate?

[expat]

[quote][quote]Sounds like now they aren't even sure they found the wreckage, just a bunch of trash floating around the ocean.

[Hagar]

I've been away while this has been going on but the news reports I've seen appear to be mostly based on pure supposition. From what I can make out, nobody can possibly know exactly where to look for any wreckage as they don't know when or where during the flight the events took place. The remains could be anywhere in a very large area of ocean.

If reports that the aircraft disintegrated in mid-air & not on contact with the sea are correct any wreckage will be spread over a wide area. There is already a large amount of debris (sea trash) spread over the ocean so identifying what might be very tiny parts of an aircraft in terrible weather conditions could be very difficult, if not impossible.

What puzzles me is that the "authorities" seem so certain of what happened. This makes me wonder if they know more than they're prepared to admit.

[Alejandro Rhodes]

Yeah, I don't understand the media , I saw days ago in cnn

confirm found parts of the plane

Now Brazil saids confirm that those are not the rest of the aircraft  :-/

That mmeans  No buddy knows for sure IF the plane really crash?Would you imagine if the plane was hijacked  :o  

[Brando14100]

They've found two bodies and a briefcase:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/brazil_plane

So sad.  :'(

8-)

[Steve M]

I heard that 4 days before this flight, Air France had to deal with a bomb threat on another flight out of Rio. My source was news radio so I won't bother linking it, nothing was found on the aircraft at that time.
But pitot tube or bomb, end result is similar.

[Craig.]

Steve, that was actually a flight out of argentina and was a hoax, but yes an airfrance flight was delayed for that reason.
Nothing should be ruled out. There is just as much reason to suggest this could have been a bomb as well as a freak weather accident.
One of the quickest and easiest ways to tell whether this was a midair or near to or ground caused break up will be the debris spread. If its more than a few miles apart then it was a midair thing, if its confined then it went into the water in fairly one piece. It should be possible even with a mid ocean accident to figure that one out. A mid air break up would make finding parts easier as silly as it sounds, the lighter stuff will hit the water at a much slower speed and is less likely then to submerge immediately.
The recovered bodies will also tell a story as to what might have happend.

[expat]

It's so amazing how big jets like airbus can be brought down by nature. We try to make planes so safe these days. So sad.

The Air Bus has a trick that the Boeing does not have during severe turbulence. As we know ailerons are one up and one down during deflection. Air Bus also use them to limit wing deflection and wing loading during severe turbulence. If the aircraft detects severe turbulence then the flight control computers will deflect the ailerons up at the same time to aerodynamically force the wings to go down. Roll is still controlled by a slight difference in the upward movement if required.

Matt

[Brando14100]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_ ... azil_plane



8-)

[expat]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane



8-)

Would not be the first aircraft lost to bad pitot information. At night you have no reference and have to believe your instruments. If memory serves, a Brazilian 737-800 was lost a few years back at night. The aircraft had been washed and believe it or not, the static ports had been waterproofed with cello tape During walk around, naturally the pilot did not spot this. The long and the short of the tale was constant under and over speed indications. Also the crew thought they where at 9000 feet and descending when in fact they where at 400 feet and descending. As you can imagine it ended in a big splash and a memorial service. If the computers where giving false information or the pitot system had frozen (anti ice failure???) then at night they were on a hiding to nothing

Matt