Firearm Discharged on US Airways Flight

[an-225]

Haven't seen this posted anywhere else on SimV...lucky it wasn't a Desert Eagle, or USP .45, otherwise the plane may have had a big hole in it!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23 ... 01,00.html

[C]

It'll be interesting to see just "how" that happened...

[expat]

Haven't seen this posted anywhere else on SimV...lucky it wasn't a Desert Eagle, or USP .45, otherwise the plane may have had a big hole in it!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23 ... 01,00.html

A hole from a firearm in a pressurised aircraft would do nothing. The whole it would produce would not even be noticed by the cabin conditioning system. What is a greater danger is the potential damage to a wiring loom and a lot of looms are hidden behind just about every cockpit panel and behind 60% of cabin wall and roof panels. The question here is why was a pilot handling a gun in the approach phase of a landing. Saying that, I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when it happened. A very pregnant pause probably followed and then some choice words by the offended party.

Matt

[Chris_F]

I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when it happened.

Here's what you missed:

*BANG*



several seconds later the muffeld sounds of cockpit noises and voices slowly return...

[Tweek]

lucky it wasn't a Desert Eagle, or USP .45, otherwise the plane may have had a big hole in it!

I'm pretty sure the pilots don't just get to take their pick from a range of weapons! I don't think there's any luck in the fact they have pistols that aren't extremely dangerous to use aboard an aircraft...

[Hagar]

I don't think there's any luck in the fact they have pistols that aren't extremely dangerous to use aboard an aircraft...

Presumably they can kill which is quite dangerous enough. IMHO

[Chris_F]

lucky it wasn't a Desert Eagle, or USP .45, otherwise the plane may have had a big hole in it!

I'm pretty sure the pilots don't just get to take their pick from a range of weapons! I don't think there's any luck in the fact they have pistols that aren't extremely dangerous to use aboard an aircraft...

There's nothing really magical about a Desert Eagle or a USP .45.  The Desert Eagle is just an autoloader that shoots revolver cartridges (a REALLY dumb idea by the way, for technical reasons not airplane danger reasons).  The .45 USP is just a .45 Cal autoloader effectively no different than the venerable 1911 (in this context).  These firearms are no different in terms of "stopping power", "airplane danger" etc than any of the firearms carried by police, military, Air Marshals, etc.

Handgun rounds really aren't that powerful in the grand scheme of things and the biggest danger I think would be penetration of a delicate system (such as an electrical wiring loom, previously stated).  Even the largest handgun round won't do enough structural damage to endanger an aircraft.

[beaky]

What I want to know is: was the weapon's safety on when he brought it on board? If so, why or how was the safety unlatched?

I can't say I'm opposed in concept to this "last line of defense" idea, but this incident points out what many feared: that the training would not be thorough enough. Many of these now-packin' crew members are not seasoned gun users... they're not simply handed a weapon and told to be careful, but...

I still think it'd be better to just have more air marshals... their training and currency standards are very stringent, as far as I know.

[Willit Run]

D'oh!!  

[Tweek]

I don't think there's any luck in the fact they have pistols that aren't extremely dangerous to use aboard an aircraft...

Presumably they can kill which is quite dangerous enough. IMHO

I expected such a comment.

What I was saying was that they're not going to be dealt out weapons that are going to be an unnecessary danger to passengers or the aircraft. You wouldn't arm the pilots with a wall-mounted machine gun or a set of frag grenades...

And my understanding of guns goes no further than computer games, so I'm not here to discuss the risks of different types of handgun!

[Celtman]

You wouldn't arm the pilots with a wall-mounted machine gun or a set of frag grenades...

Now theres an idea..........

[machineman9]

Easy solution... dont leave the damn mag in the pistol or a round in the chamber  ;D . I dont quite have my weapons handling certificate, but I know that you shouldnt leave a gun off the safety or loaded unless you are planning to fire it.

'It could have even torn off a wing'. Well, as proved on Mythbusters, unless it is some platic explosive, it wont do much more than cause a bit of de-pressurisation.

Chuck it in a bulletproof yellow-box type box and dont leave it armed. Would be interesting to find out what made it fire itself.


Video on that link used 'airplane' too much. Drives me to distraction  >:(

Next solution... CS gas in the cabin perhaps?  :P

[Hagar]

I don't think there's any luck in the fact they have pistols that aren't extremely dangerous to use aboard an aircraft...

Presumably they can kill which is quite dangerous enough. IMHO

I expected such a comment.

What I was saying was that they're not going to be dealt out weapons that are going to be an unnecessary danger to passengers or the aircraft. You wouldn't arm the pilots with a wall-mounted machine gun or a set of frag grenades...

My point was that the confined environment of an aircraft cockpit is not the ideal place for any type of firearm. If it's fired either intentionally or by accident (as it appears in this case) there is every possibility that it could injure or kill one of the crew or cause severe damage to the aircraft. As Matt pointed out this does not need to affect the pressurisation which seems to be all the 'experts' are concerned with.

Easy solution... dont leave the darn mag in the pistol or a round in the chamber . I dont quite have my weapons handling certificate, but I know that you shouldnt leave a gun off the safety or loaded unless you are planning to fire it.

It's a long time since I handled any type of firearm but I understand that the automatic pistols used for this sort of job are not fitted with an external safety catch. http://www.economicexpert.com/2a/GLOCK.htm
There have been several incidents involving the Queen's bodyguard where this type of pistol has been accidentally discharged while unloading it, fortunately without causing injury. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/shots-fired-by-bodyguard-as-queen-sleeps-715467.html
If this can happen to a (presumably) highly trained specialist firearms officer it's very likely that it could also happen to a crew member in the cockpit of an airliner. Next time they might not be so lucky.

[beaky]

Latest i heard was that it was a .40 semi-auto that supposedly had a round in the chamber when it went off... "d'oh" is right.

I'm not a "gun person" but it seems to me to be foolish to have such a weapon "cocked" when it really doesn't take long to unsafe it and chamber a round and fire it, if needed... an accident waiting to happen.
I can see keeping the mag in; fumbling with that in an emergency could be a critical time-waster. But there's no need to have it set up for a "quick draw", I think.

[Brett_Henderson]

Latest i heard was that it was a .40 semi-auto that supposedly had a round in the chamber when it went off... "d'oh" is right.

I'm not a "gun person" but it seems to me to be foolish to have such a weapon "cocked" when it really doesn't take long to unsafe it and chamber a round and fire it, if needed... an accident waiting to happen.
I can see keeping the mag in; fumbling with that in an emergency could be a critical time-waster. But there's no need to have it set up for a "quick draw", I think.

It depends on the weapon. Oddly enough, the oldest design, is still the best. John Browning's design in the form of the tried and true, Colt 1911A1 is designed to be carried in 'condition one' (loaded magazine, round in the chamber, hammer cocked). There are two safety systems. A very positive hammer lock that can be quickly dis-engaged by the firing hand's thumb... and a grip safety that won't allow the firing-pin sear to release unless fully depressed by the web of the shooting hand.

Stored or holstered in condition one, the 1911A1 can be brought to readiness by a flick of the thumb, .. and even then, if not firmly in the shooter's hand, the firing pin cannot reach the chambered round. It takes series of deliberate actions in order for a bullet to exit the barrel.