Pilot refuses to land??

[expat]

A rather strange story and a bit short to see the whole picture. One question though, did they leave Amsterdam on a scheduled flight with an open ended flight plan??. "Would all passengers on KLM flight to India please go to gate number##"

Never heard of it, wont land

Matt

[C]

One can only assume his ops submitted the flight plan to the old Hyderabad airport, and that whatever system they were using to file it hadn't been updated to highlight the change or problem.

The diversion to Delhi may be understandable too if the aircraft's documentation was not up to date with plates for the new airport. Even though he could do it weather permitting, I'm not sure how comfortable you'd be having no idea of the layout or topography of the new airfield, let alone the basic details.

[expat]

I'm not sure how comfortable you'd be having no idea of the layout or topography of the new airfield, let alone the basic details.

That I can understand, but he could not have been the only aircraft on approach. He must have heard radio comms of other pilots and instructions to the airport/frequency changes to approach etc.

Matt

[C]

I'm not sure how comfortable you'd be having no idea of the layout or topography of the new airfield, let alone the basic details.

That I can understand, but he could not have been the only aircraft on approach. He must have heard radio comms of other pilots and instructions to the airport/frequency changes to approach etc.

Matt

Quite. But the actual mechanics of the approach, depending on terrain, weather, the aids available from ATC etc? I could also understand wanting to land at an airfield he actually had documentation for - particularly when it appears the first he knew was on trying to contact the former airport. Better safe than sorry.

[expat]

I'm not sure how comfortable you'd be having no idea of the layout or topography of the new airfield, let alone the basic details.

That I can understand, but he could not have been the only aircraft on approach. He must have heard radio comms of other pilots and instructions to the airport/frequency changes to approach etc.

Matt

Quite. But the actual mechanics of the approach, depending on terrain, weather, the aids available from ATC etc? I could also understand wanting to land at an airfield he actually had documentation for - particularly when it appears the first he knew was on trying to contact the former airport. Better safe than sorry.

Better safe than sorry, very true. Better another airline to fly with as it would appear that KLM have an up to date paperwork problem :-?

Matt

[C]

I'm not sure how comfortable you'd be having no idea of the layout or topography of the new airfield, let alone the basic details.

That I can understand, but he could not have been the only aircraft on approach. He must have heard radio comms of other pilots and instructions to the airport/frequency changes to approach etc.

Matt

Quite. But the actual mechanics of the approach, depending on terrain, weather, the aids available from ATC etc? I could also understand wanting to land at an airfield he actually had documentation for - particularly when it appears the first he knew was on trying to contact the former airport. Better safe than sorry.

Better safe than sorry, very true. Better another airline to fly with as it would appear that KLM have an up to date paperwork problem :-?

Matt

It's an odd situation I suppose. Having said that you'd have thought it would have been in the pack of Indian notams that an airport was closing, and another opening.

[DaveSims]

I couldn't imagine arriving at my destination only to find out they moved the airport.  As for the stack of Notams a pilot receives from ops, they are hard to find what you need.  Even for the short hops we get in here, the pilot may have three or four pages of small print Notams, that basically cover every tower light out, change in approachs, and airfield notams for the entire route.  Its hard to find the one important one that says airport gone.

[C]

I couldn't imagine arriving at my destination only to find out they moved the airport.  As for the stack of Notams a pilot receives from ops, they are hard to find what you need.  Even for the short hops we get in here, the pilot may have three or four pages of small print Notams, that basically cover every tower light out, change in approachs, and airfield notams for the entire route.  Its hard to find the one important one that says airport gone.

I'd hope he'd at least do a reasonably detailed check of the notams at the departure and destination airfields having picked them out using their ICAO code. AIRFIELD CLOSED should stand out even on a quick skim through. Notams may be a pain but just beacuse there are several pages of them isn't an excuse for not picking out the pertinant ones.

[Xyn_Air]

I am just a bit confused here, but that seems pretty normal for me lately.  So, here are my questions:

1)  Was this a scheduled flight for an airline or a private charter?
I ask this, because if it was a scheduled flight by a regular airline, I am kind of confused as to how they would sell tickets for a flight that didn't have a destination, or, how they would have a flight with a destination and just not happen to tell the pilot where he was going (Yeah, hey, Bob, we have this flight going to, oh, somewhere in India.  Want to pilot it?).


2)  Was the destination airport moved, closed, or not selected before departure?
If the airport was moved recently, I could quite understand the confusion on the part of the pilot if he had flown the route previously, but not for some time.  If the destination airport was closed, say due to weather or something, and the pilot was being asked to divert to an unfamiliar airport, I could, again, understand the confusion.  If the destination was not even selected for departure . . . well, I didn't know that commercial flights would do something like that.


3)  How much leeway is afforded a pilot in choosing to divert, without said pilot getting canned?
Obviously, all crew members should be held to standards of job proficiency and safety.  So, if the pilot failed to do whatever he needed to do to be prepared for this flight, I imagine some disciplinary action will be on its way.  On the other hand, if the pilot did everything he was supposed to, and the problem lay elsewhere, shouldn't the pilot be actually commended for putty safety ahead of all other concerns?

Well, this is certainly a most puzzling story.  Thanks for linking to it.

Darrin

[C]

I am just a bit confused here, but that seems pretty normal for me lately.  So, here are my questions:

1)  Was this a scheduled flight for an airline or a private charter?
I ask this, because if it was a scheduled flight by a regular airline, I am kind of confused as to how they would sell tickets for a flight that didn't have a destination, or, how they would have a flight with a destination and just not happen to tell the pilot where he was going (Yeah, hey, Bob, we have this flight going to, oh, somewhere in India.  Want to pilot it?).


2)  Was the destination airport moved, closed, or not selected before departure?
If the airport was moved recently, I could quite understand the confusion on the part of the pilot if he had flown the route previously, but not for some time.  If the destination airport was closed, say due to weather or something, and the pilot was being asked to divert to an unfamiliar airport, I could, again, understand the confusion.  If the destination was not even selected for departure . . . well, I didn't know that commercial flights would do something like that.


3)  How much leeway is afforded a pilot in choosing to divert, without said pilot getting canned?
Obviously, all crew members should be held to standards of job proficiency and safety.  So, if the pilot failed to do whatever he needed to do to be prepared for this flight, I imagine some disciplinary action will be on its way.  On the other hand, if the pilot did everything he was supposed to, and the problem lay elsewhere, shouldn't the pilot be actually commended for putty safety ahead of all other concerns?

Well, this is certainly a most puzzling story.  Thanks for linking to it.

Darrin

To answer 1 & 2, it appears to have been a scheduled trip to Hyderabad. Hyderabad's old international airport closed and traffic was then destined for the new international airport in Hyderabad - this is the bit that KLM seem to have missed.

[expat]

Just as well this pilot did not fly the old Hong Kong route just after Kai Tak  was closed

Matt

[Xyn_Air]

Just as well this pilot did not fly the old Hong Kong route just after Kai Tak  was closed

Matt

From what I have read, they performed the move so quickly out of Kai Tak, if you were on a long flight, the airports could have changed while you were in the air!



Bemused,
Darrin