Bent-up winglet on LH A320

[Wii]

Wow. I would have gone around before touchdown but I guess the conditions left them with no choice. They're lucky they didn't get in the grass...

[expat]

[smiley=door.gif] Don't worry, This is one argument I'm not getting involved with.

The A320 apparently landed safely on a different runway. I found photos of the damage if anyone is interested. http://www.hamburg-airport-friends-forum.de/showthread.php?tid=763&pid=2607#pid2607

Conditions had apparently been terrible all day & the A320 was not the only one to experience problems with gusting. Note a couple of shots of an Air Berlin 737 landing on the same runway earlier. There was a video of the 737 landing posted on YouTube that has since been removed.

I found this video of a TAP A321 in very similar circumstances at Lisbon in 2002. At least, I assume it's an A321. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4f9ZZxoUKE&feature=related

As I said, they where all trying to land during hurricane Emma.

Matt

[Hagar]

As I said, they where all trying to land during hurricane Emma.

Matt

I appreciate that. I was wondering if anyone else did.

[beaky]

The conditions didn't escape me... but it's worth noting that on the next attempt, they made a better landing... on a different runway.
Despite the clearance given, the crew has the last say once they have a look at things on final. From the video, I'd imagine they didn't like what they saw, but went for it anyway.
 I just think they should've gone around on that one, that's all.

[expat]

The conditions didn't escape me... but it's worth noting that on the next attempt, they made a better landing... on a different runway.
Despite the clearance given, the crew has the last say once they have a look at things on final. From the video, I'd imagine they didn't like what they saw, but went for it anyway.
 I just think they should've gone around on that one, that's all.

The Luftfahrtbundesamt (LBA), the German CAA/FAA are currently investigating why the airport was even using this runway in such adverse conditions. If the news is to believed, they are going to town on Hamburg airport with a fine tooth comb. Mind you I did read that in "Bild", the Germany equivalent of The Daily Sport (but with a much lower nipple count).

Matt

[Arnimon]

Hi Matt!
I saw the Video late that Day at the "Tagesschau" News.
After that they showed the Weatherforecast,and the Moderator(J

[expat]

[quote]Hi Matt!
I saw the Video late that Day at the "Tagesschau" News.
After that they showed the Weatherforecast,and the Moderator(J

[Cobra]

I have heard quite a lot about this, stories all varying quite a lot...but most of the news i have seen/read quotes the cross winds as gusting up to 150mph. The thing I don't get is why they didnt just divert?

Anyhow, the crew got everyone down in one piece in pretty horrific conditions, so i think they deserve a bit of credit!

[expat]

I have heard quite a lot about this, stories all varying quite a lot...but most of the news i have seen/read quotes the cross winds as gusting up to 150mph. The thing I don't get is why they didnt just divert?

Anyhow, the crew got everyone down in one piece in pretty horrific conditions, so i think they deserve a bit of credit!

It got lost in translation, it was blowing 150kph (about 90mph).

Matt

[Brett_Henderson]

This is something I posted at another discussion...

Now.. let me qualify this next statement as PURE speculation; meant SOLEY for discussion. I have NO idea what the airline's policies are, and have no idea under what circumstances they expect right-seat pilots to gain experience. As a 1500hour instrument/commercial/CFI pilot watching that video, I don't see a veteran pilot flying that approach, and it sure looks like a, "MY AIRPLANE" exchange at the end.

I'll wait until the news is official...  This is interesting...

[Fly2e]

If you read the Very interesting discussion at Airliners (experienced pilots), there is some real great discussion going on over there.

Especially to find out the FO was a 24 year old girl!

[expat]

If you read the Very interesting discussion at Airliners (experienced pilots), there is some real great discussion going on over there.

Especially to find out the FO was a 24 year old girl!  :o
Not that it matters at all but interesting to read the requirements and certifications for different countries & airlines. Big argument over there is not that she is a girl but that she is only 24 and that extensive flight & simulator time seems minimal before handing over the controls of a multi-engine commercial jetliner!

I would say that inexperience played a part.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/ge ... 76/#menu51

Before everyone criticises that a "little girl" was flying like it or not, if it was a "young lad" flying half of what was being said would not be. The German tabloids are going to town with headlines like "they let a girl fly the aircraft. Lufthansa has one of the strictest and toughest training programs for pilots in the world. If she did not hold the qualification, then she would not have been in the position that she was in. Also how do you get flying experience when you just sit and watch. Having to spoken to a few of our company pilots, they are of the opinion that the captain would also have failed to set the aircraft down because he would have been hit by the same gust that the co-pilot had to deal with. Full opposite aileron is full opposite aileron, regardless if the input is by captain or co-pilot. That wing was still going to lift and the rest is history.

One point to ponder though. Last week on a BA flight a co-pilot had a heart attack and died at the controls, the captain as expected landed the aircraft. Had the pilot of this aircraft suffered that or a debilitating illness, young Maxine would right now be heroine of the hour. Near crash, flying on her own, pilot dead in the other seat, a go around and landing on the other runway. Instead we are all trying to insert a slowly rotating pine apple into her rear. Also no one is questioning why Hamburg airport was still operating that run way in those weather conditions....................
Hamburg has many many restrictions, you cannot use thrust reverse for one. No APU's until engine start another, it is all about noise. They use the configuration one runway to take off and one to land to keep the noise down and get the maximum aircraft movements that are possible.  Having everything land/takeoff on one runway would have had the locals knocking at the door and would have backed up aircraft into very low fuel holding. The pilot landed on that runway because that was the only option from Hamburg at the time. It was only after a near miss that someone finally took a decision to close that runway. I think that the airport is as much at fault as the crew.

Matt

[C]

]
Especially to find out the FO was a 24 year old girl!  :o
Not that it matters at all but interesting to read the requirements and certifications for different countries & airlines. Big argument over there is not that she is a girl but that she is only 24 and that extensive flight & simulator time seems minimal before handing over the controls of a multi-engine commercial jetliner!

I would say that inexperience played a part.

A-net. Lots of experience pilots, and lots of people pretending to be them, then everyone else ... A bit like PPrune!

If she's 24 then what does that matter? She could have had and ATPL for 6 years, and as a short haul pilot could easily accrue as many hours in 5 or 6 years as a 10year air force pilot. I know there are certainly people in military and civil circles captaining big jets in their mid 20s.

As for the approach, I'd be very surprised if anyone other than the captain was flying it. Secondly the wind passed on finals must have been within limits, however their timing may well have been unfortunate.

You point does bring up some interesting arguments though - especially where this is involved:

MPL

[expat]

]
Especially to find out the FO was a 24 year old girl!  :o
Not that it matters at all but interesting to read the requirements and certifications for different countries & airlines. Big argument over there is not that she is a girl but that she is only 24 and that extensive flight & simulator time seems minimal before handing over the controls of a multi-engine commercial jetliner!

I would say that inexperience played a part.

A-net. Lots of experience pilots, and lots of people pretending to be them, then everyone else ... A bit like PPrune!

If she's 24 then what does that matter? She could have had and ATPL for 6 years, and as a short haul pilot could easily accrue as many hours in 5 or 6 years as a 10year air force pilot. I know there are certainly people in military and civil circles captaining big jets in their mid 20s.

As for the approach, I'd be very surprised if anyone other than the captain was flying it. Secondly the wind passed on finals must have been within limits, however their timing may well have been unfortunate.

You point does bring up some interesting arguments though - especially where this is involved:

MPL

MPL, that sounds a little scary to be honest.
As for the limits, the A320 has a max crosswind limitation of 33 kts and a max gust limit of 38 kts. It would seem each answer brings more questions.

Matt

[C]

MPL, that sounds a little scary to be honest.

Quite. My thoughts entirely. Having said that, I've spoken to career RAF pilots who now captain for the airlines who don't see a problem with it.