No more DC-3 flights in the UK!

[mrjake2002]

European legislation will see the final flight of a British-registered passenger  Douglas DC-3 on 13 July this year.  Although currently approved to operate by the UK Civil Aviation Authority, this will not be the case when EU-OPS becomes law at 0001 hours on 16 July 2008.  Although the regulations also affect other classic aircraft in the Air Atlantique fleet, including he de Havilland Dragon Rapide and Scottish Aviation Twin Pioneer, because they are significantly smaller than the DC-3, the regulations which they must meet are far less onerous.  These aircraft can be expected to continue to fly on.

>:( >:(

[Tweek]

No more DC-3 passenger flights.

[Hagar]

No more DC-3 passenger flights.

Jake didn't quote his source. If this is true it amounts to the same thing. It's doubtful that Air Atlantique will continue operating the DC-3 if the cost cannot be offset by carrying passengers.

[Tweek]

No more DC-3 passenger flights.

Jake didn't quote his source. If this is true it amounts to the same thing. It's doubtful that Air Atlantique will continue operating the DC-3 if the cost cannot be offset by carrying passengers.

It sure is true, and it could well mean the end of Air Atlantique DC-3 flights. But I emphasised 'passenger' as it doesn't mean the end of all DC-3/C-47 flying in the UK, as the thread title would suggest.

A sad state of affairs nonetheless.

[expat]

"EU-OPS requires all aircraft operated on Commercial Air Transport flights, regardless of age or historic value, to comply with requirements including lockable flight deck doors and escape slides." If they effect Air Atlantique's DC-3 then what about Lufthansa and the JU-52, after all they are EU-OPS. Should be interesting to see how LH gets around that one. No doubt the LBA will oblige on some ground or another.

Matt

[expat]

Maybe the following could be a get out of jail clause, but I am not a lawyer so who know :-?

Air operators should be given sufficient flexibility to
address unforeseen urgent operational circumstances, or
operational needs of a limited duration, or to demonstrate
that they can achieve an equivalent level of safety
by means other than the application of the common
rules set out in the Annex (hereinafter referred to as
Annex III). Member States should therefore be empowered
to grant exemptions or introduce variations to the
common technical requirements and administrative
procedures. Because such exemptions and variations
could, in certain cases, undermine the common safety
standards or create distortions on the market, their scope
should be strictly limited and their grant should be
subject to appropriate Community control. In that
respect, the Commission should be empowered to take
safeguard measures.

Full doc: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 175:EN:pdf

Matt

[mrjake2002]

From what I read in Aeroplane monthly, in order to comply with EU-OPS modifications would need to include "the installation of airborne weather radar, cockpit voice recorder, emergency light system, lockable flight deck door, crew protective breathing equipment and, as the emergency exits are 4 inches over the required 6 foot, equipment such as slides are required!"

"The aircraft will continue to fly after that date (July 16th) for aerial work such as surveys and air displays".

Even though the CAA have allowed exemptions in the past they will now be forced to comply!

Absolutely ridiculous.  >:(

From the report (via UKAR)...

"OPS 1.665
Photography
(a) An operator shall not allow photography of any aircraft:
(1) Having a maximum certificated take-off
mass in excess of 15 000 kg or having a
maximum approved passenger seating
configuration of more than 30; or
(2) Having a maximum certificated take- off
mass in excess of 5700 kg or a maximum
approved passenger seating
configuration of more than 9 after
1 January 1999
(3) Military aircraft are exempt from this rule."




I'm sick of all this health and safety crap. I realise that some is necessary but this is just too far! If the EU got there way we'd probably have to wear helmets while playing flight sim.  ;D

[Vapour01]

Hang on, you're not under the impression there'll be no more DC3 flights at all in this country are you? Even if this worst comes to worst and this one does wind up being grounded as a result of this passenger ruling let's not forget the BBMF have one, and that covers a far wider area than the AA one.

[mrjake2002]

No. I'm not under the impression that there will be no more DC-3 flights.

"The aircraft will continue to fly after that date (July 16th) for aerial work such as surveys and air displays".

Just that she can no longer fly passenger flights.

[Vapour01]

No. I'm not under the impression that there will be no more DC-3 flights.

"The aircraft will continue to fly after that date (July 16th) for aerial work such as surveys and air displays".

Just that she can no longer fly passenger flights.

Well then, as long as she doesn't get grounded as a result of not being able to do that then it's not the end of the world, is it?

[mrjake2002]

Not the end of the world, but a bit of a bugger.  ;D

EDIT: Surely it will affect the companies income quite heavily though?

[ozzy72]

They could always operate it in the same manner as the 2-seater Spitfires are done, passengers pay for the cost of their flight not profit. This is how the warbird community gets around the idiot regulations.
I wonder if the Hungarians will ground the only remaining Li-2 because of this... they'd better not 'cos I've not been on it yet!!!

[Vapour01]

[quote]Not the end of the world, but a bit of a bugger.

[C]

For a little clarity on the issue, I'll refer you all to Tom Everitt's post here, near the bottom of page one. He knows what he's talking about as he's the Ops Manager for AA's Classic Flight.

[beaky]

An outfit like Air Atlantique could probably go nonprofit and require a signed waiver for any pax, but that doesn't imply a rosy future for them.  
DC3s and Daks are not very cost-efficient these days; without profit, it's extremely difficult to keep them flying for displays, let alone charters, etc. :-/
They could probably beat some of the equipment requirements with simple single-use smoke hoods for the crew, a portable Garmin with XM weather, and a lock on the cockpit door and emergency lights would not be very expensive to install.
But the slides... that's another matter. Seems crazy, though- I've never heard of anyone being injured exiting a Gooney in an emergency, but plenty of people have been hurt going down those slides...  ::)