Supersonic red eye

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Supersonic red eye

Postby chornedsnorkack » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:11 am

A "Red Eye" flight is eastward flight that flies at night, departing in the evening and arriving in the morning, such that the passengers have very short time for sleep at night, and normally cannot sleep anyway because of cramped shorthaul seating.

Which red eye flights did Concorde fly?? With the speed, Concorde could cross a lot of time zones overnight! So, what about setting out to meet the Sun at a supersonic speed?

A real example of a subsonic Red Eye flight. A certain flight departs from Dublin at 00:45 or 1:15 depending on the weekday, and arrives at destination 3 hours of flying and 2 time zones later - 5:45 or 6:15 respectively. It is a Boeing 737-500, with relatively limited comfort (31 inches pitch and no free meals in Economy).

A Concorde has better pitch that subsonic Economy, comparable seat width and better service. And after spending 3...4 hours in a cramped tube exactly as you would on a subsonic narrowbody, you end up much further.

In case of Red Eyes, it would presumably be much more comfortable to fly by Concorde... If you, say, depart 1:00 by subsonic, fly 3:30 and cross 2 timezones, you arrive at your destination 4:30 by body clock, 6.30 locally. Fly the same schedule on a Concorde, crossing 5 timezones... your body clock is likewise 4:30, but the local time at destination is 9:30. Much more sensible time... you do not have to wait (and let your body clock get even more) before the locals wake up and get to work with you.

Is it more comfortable to get to work at 9:00 with your body clock at 7:00 (after subsonic Red Eye) or with body clock at 4:00 (after Concorde Red Eye)?

Of course, Paris is even more, 6 timezones ahead of American east coast. So, in order to show up somewhere in Paris at 9:00 locally, 3:00 body clock time, you
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby eno » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:38 am

It's 07.30am here ....... and I have red eyes after attempting to make sense of what you're on about  ;D ;D ;D

I think last Concorde flight of the day was early evening ....... the idea being that a business man could leave London at 9am GMT and arrive in New York at 7am EST  in time for a full day's work. If he caught the last flight of the day he would be back in time for dinner in London.
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby Craig. » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:49 am

I remember after its return to service concorde would fly over bristol towards heathrow at around 9pm sometimes a bit later.
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby Hagar » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:50 am

A "Red Eye" flight is eastward flight that flies at night, departing in the evening and arriving in the morning, such that the passengers have very short time for sleep at night, and normally cannot sleep anyway because of cramped shorthaul seating.

Which red eye flights did Concorde fly?? With the speed, Concorde could cross a lot of time zones overnight! So, what about setting out to meet the Sun at a supersonic speed?

Not sure you explained this all that well. I don't think Concorde did any actual night services in an easterly direction. I know one BA flight left Heathrow at 10.30 am arriving in JFK at approx 9.00 am (local times). The point being that due to the 5 hour time difference you could arrive in JFK before you left Heathrow. This would be literally beating the sun.

In theory a businessman could do a couple of hours work at the office in London before catching the morning Concorde flight, arriving in New York in time for breakfast & doing a whole day's work there.* Of course, on the return trip it would obviously work the other way round & you add 5 hours to the total flight time. Based on an average flight time of 3 hours 30 minutes a flight leaving JFK at 9 pm would arrive at Heathrow at around 5.30 am the following day. It would probably be more economical to take a subsonic flight on the way back.

*This is all fine in theory but the problem with even the fastest air travel is the amount of time wasted on the ground, getting to & from the airport & on & off the aircraft. As the old saying goes; If you have plenty of time to spare, go by air. ::)

It might be just me but I've never suffered from jet-lag on the outward trip. I make up for it on the way back & it usually takes me several days to recover.
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby Tom... » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:28 am

When i was in primary school Heathrow was about 15-20 miles from where the school was and where i lived, and concorde came over countless times, it was as immpressive every time i saw it, a few times we went down to the runways with a scanner and it came right over us departing 8-)
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby Craig. » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:33 pm

A "Red Eye" flight is eastward flight that flies at night, departing in the evening and arriving in the morning, such that the passengers have very short time for sleep at night, and normally cannot sleep anyway because of cramped shorthaul seating.

Which red eye flights did Concorde fly?? With the speed, Concorde could cross a lot of time zones overnight! So, what about setting out to meet the Sun at a supersonic speed?

It might be just me but I've never suffered from jet-lag on the outward trip. I make up for it on the way back & it usually takes me several days to recover.

I never really understood  jet lag on the transatlantic routes. To avoid it on the westward flights you just have to endure a longer day and not sleep on the flight, not that hard especially as the dealing with the various boarding and offloading and immigration, wakes you up anyway. Then eastwards you either sleep the flight home and you should in theory wake up arriving in the uk in the morning bright and refreshed ready for the day, or if you cant sleep a full night on the plane you have to endure a really long day and not sleep the flight at all.
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby Hagar » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:59 pm

A "Red Eye" flight is eastward flight that flies at night, departing in the evening and arriving in the morning, such that the passengers have very short time for sleep at night, and normally cannot sleep anyway because of cramped shorthaul seating.

Which red eye flights did Concorde fly?? With the speed, Concorde could cross a lot of time zones overnight! So, what about setting out to meet the Sun at a supersonic speed?

It might be just me but I've never suffered from jet-lag on the outward trip. I make up for it on the way back & it usually takes me several days to recover.

I never really understood
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby chornedsnorkack » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:19 am

A "Red Eye" flight is eastward flight that flies at night, departing in the evening and arriving in the morning, such that the passengers have very short time for sleep at night, and normally cannot sleep anyway because of cramped shorthaul seating.

Which red eye flights did Concorde fly?? With the speed, Concorde could cross a lot of time zones overnight! So, what about setting out to meet the Sun at a supersonic speed?

Not sure you explained this all that well. I don't think Concorde did any actual night services in an easterly direction.


Plainly they did. As I quoted, the easterly flights London-Bahrain.Singapore and Rio de Janeiro-Dakar-Paris were at night. What time of day were the easterly flights Mexico-Washington-Paris and Caracas-Santa Maria-Paris?
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby Hagar » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:43 am

Not sure you explained this all that well. I don't think Concorde did any actual night services in an easterly direction.


Plainly they did. As I quoted, the easterly flights London-Bahrain.Singapore and Rio de Janeiro-Dakar-Paris were at night. What time of day were the easterly flights and Caracas-Santa Maria-Paris?

I've searched for the regular schedules without much luck. I'm sure that Concorde wouldn't have been allowed to operate late at night from most airports due to the noise. It was banned from many airports during daylight for that reason. I understand that "Red-Eye" flights are those operated between 9:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. local time

My point is that with a supersonic aircraft the most benefit would be from flights in a westerly direction, like the London to NYC service I mentioned.
Last edited by Hagar on Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby chornedsnorkack » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:20 pm


Plainly they did. As I quoted, the easterly flights London-Bahrain.Singapore and Rio de Janeiro-Dakar-Paris were at night. What time of day were the easterly flights and Caracas-Santa Maria-Paris?

I've searched for the regular schedules without much luck. I'm sure that Concorde wouldn't have been allowed to operate late at night from most airports due to the noise. It was banned from many airports during daylight for that reason. I understand that "Red-Eye" flights are those operated between 9:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. local time

Yes, the folks at Dakar and Bahrain must have really loved the sound of Concorde at night...
My point is that with a supersonic aircraft the most benefit would be from flights in a westerly direction, like the London to NYC service I mentioned.


But unless those aircraft actually keep circling the world in westerly direction, they have to return east at some time. If you depart in the morning, you lose the day because of the time difference. What is the best time to travel east supersonically?
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Re: Supersonic red eye

Postby Hagar » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:50 pm


Plainly they did. As I quoted, the easterly flights London-Bahrain.Singapore and Rio de Janeiro-Dakar-Paris were at night. What time of day were the easterly flights and Caracas-Santa Maria-Paris?

I've searched for the regular schedules without much luck. I'm sure that Concorde wouldn't have been allowed to operate late at night from most airports due to the noise. It was banned from many airports during daylight for that reason. I understand that "Red-Eye" flights are those operated between 9:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. local time

Yes, the folks at Dakar and Bahrain must have really loved the sound of Concorde at night...
My point is that with a supersonic aircraft the most benefit would be from flights in a westerly direction, like the London to NYC service I mentioned.


But unless those aircraft actually keep circling the world in westerly direction, they have to return east at some time. If you depart in the morning, you lose the day because of the time difference. What is the best time to travel east supersonically?

I was referring to the idea of supersonic "Red Eye" flights which I think are a no-no. I believe that Concorde was most suited to the transatlantic route due to its range limitations. The other destinations were useful alternatives while various bans (mostly political) from US airports & cities were overcome. I found a schedule for these routes & assume they were chosen as the most convenient times for the passengers to travel. http://www.fordyce.org/scanning/scanning_info/concorde.html

Concorde Schedules
JFK Airport, New York
(Times are EST/EDT)

Air France operated 2 flights per day Paris/CDG - NYC/JFK.

Flight 2
Last edited by Hagar on Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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