What is a "Very" Light Jet?

[chornedsnorkack]

How do you define a "Very" Light Jet, and what is new about them?

Looking at classics:

Learjet 23 weighs under 3 tons empty.

Cessna Citation is just under 2500 kg empty.

And recently -

The new Eclipse 500, said to have just entered into service, weight slightly over 1600 kg empty.

So, what is the difference between a "Very" Light Jet, and simply a small private jet?

And the Cri-Cri twinjet weighs something about 80 kg OEW. So, what is a "Very" Light Jet?

[Tom...]

The Weight  ;D

[RitterKreuz]

Basically a VLJ (Very Light Jet) is any jet which has a max gross takeoff weight of less than 10,000 lbs is certified for single pilot operation.

Keep in mind that the 10,000 lbs is MAX T/O WEIGHT

empty weight would be substantially lower

take the Eclipse 500 for example - empty it weighs just about 3500 lbs.... just consider that fully loaded a Piper Cherokee weights about 2800 lbs

put the fuel bags and the maximum of 5 passengers in the Eclipse 500 and your weight goes up to only about 5,900 lbs

compare this to a learjet 45, empty she weighs 13,695 lbs, nearly as much  as 4 eclipse 500's

[chornedsnorkack]

Basically a VLJ (Very Light Jet) is any jet which has a max gross takeoff weight of less than 10,000 lbs is certified for single pilot operation.

Keep in mind that the 10,000 lbs is MAX T/O WEIGHT

Ah. So about 4500 kg?

CitationJets have MTOW of 4700...4800 kg, and are single pilot. Are "very" light jets very different from the classical CitationJet?

[PlutonianEmpire]

And what about these "hondajets" i hear about?

[RitterKreuz]

Do not think about the "empty weight" of the aircraft... the weight of the aircraft when empty means nothing -  its not about what the aircraft weighs when its empty.

Do not think about whether the aircraft can be single pilot or not...

To qualify as a VLJ the aircraft must have a max takeoff weight of UNDER 10,000 pounds AND be single pilot capable, not one or the other it MUST meet BOTH criteria.

VLJs must have a MAX TAKEOFF WEIGHT less than 10,000 lbs (about 4500 kg) AND be single pilot certified

LEAR 45.... MAX T/O Wt = 21,500 lbs ( 9750 kg)
Citation X.... MAX T/O/ Wt = 36,000 lbs ( 16300 kg)
Citation 5... MAX T/O Wt = 15,000 lbs approx (6800 kg)

those three common business jets are WAY too heavy to be included in the VLJ class

however the eclipse 500 and the honda jet are meant to be VLJs

they will only weigh about 3800kg MAX takeoff weight and probably only seat as many people as a Beech Baron or something like that. (4 or 5 people max)

citations and learjets will hold 8 passengers, sometimes 10 or 12 passengers even and they weight about 3 or 4 times as much as a VLJ.

even the smallest of the business jets outweighs a  VLJ by a good 3500 kg at least

As far as whats new about them? They are meant to fill the market gap between light piston twin engine aircraft and medium sized business jets. If you desire the speed of a learjet but the economy of say a C90 king air while only meeting the needs of perhaps as many as 4 passengers a Beech Baron will be too cramped and slow, a king air C90 will just be too slow and the Learjet will be too much airplane if you are only planning to accommodate a couple of passengers

hope this answers your question

[chornedsnorkack]

[quote]Do not think about the "empty weight" of the aircraft... the weight of the aircraft when empty means nothing -

[RitterKreuz]

some manufacturer sees a gap otherwise they wouldn't be producing them i guess... i mean after all most airliners were built to fill a "size gap".

so lets say your corporate department or even your charter company wants a jet but your business is only catering to 2 or sometimes 3 personnel or customers at a time.  

Do you buy a king air C90 or 200 or 350? Do you say "well we really want a jet." and go with a Learjet45 or a citation? because if you do your going to have 7 to 12 seats that are not doing anything on every flight. thats impractical and very costly from a business perspective. ideally you want at least 80% of your seats occupied in order for the flight's costs to be justifiable.

So lets say you buy a piaggio avanti - with its 9 seat cabin, 7 seats will usually be empty, but with the eclipse jet with only 4 or 5 seats there is no empty dead loss factor...

these VLJs are supposed to be smaller, more fuel efficient and faster than dated turboprop equipment.

im not sure exactly which "citationjets" your talking about unless it is the new "citation mustang". I have flown the cessna citation 5 series and it has a max TO weight of about 15,000 to 17,000 lbs.

as far as citations go you have these to choose from (you can convert to Kg if you like)

CitationJet 1 = 10,700 lbs MTOW (barely 700 lbs too heavy for VLJ class)
CitationJet 2 = 12,500 lbs MTOW (2,500 lbs too heavy for VLJ class)
CitationJet 3 = 13,870 lbs MTOW (3,870 lbs too heavy for VLJ class)
Citation     5 = 15,500 lbs MTOW ( 5,500 lbs too heavy for VLJ class)
Citation Encore = 16,300 lbs MTOW (6,300 lb too heavy for VLJ class)
Citation XLS = 30,500 lbs MTOW (20,500 lbs too heavy for VLJ class)
Citation Sovereign= 30,300 lbs MTOW ( 20,300 lbs too heavy for VLJ class)
Citation X = 36,000 lbs MTOW (26,000 lbs too heavy for VLJ class)

the only Cessna product built specifically to qualify as a VLJ that i'm aware of is the New Citation Mustang barely making it under 10,000 lbs max takeoff weight.

currently every major manufacturer is working on some kind of VLJ aircraft. look at this web page, maybe it can help explain...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLJ

[The Ruptured Duck]

VLJ's look cool, but honestly I want something that hauls some heavy stuff.  Like a King Air, Caravan, or TBM

[RitterKreuz]

well that is true to some extent

but what the VLJ folks are trying to do is make "fancy private jet" rental affordable for everyone. The VLJ industry wants it to be equally as common for someone to call their local FBO and charter one of these VLJs for about the same costs as it would be to get airline tickets for their family thereby creating an alternative to airline travel.

Im in support of the Idea. I think it would not only create thousands of aviation related jobs but may well revolutionize the way the public travels to and from various vacation spots or the way business shuttle their people to and from work related locations.

Lets face it, you have two options

option A: buy 1500 dollars worth of tickets for yourself your wife and your kids to go on a ski trip in salt lake city and you have to check in 3 hours before departure, go through security, get on a crowded 737change planes in Dallas and when you finally get to salt lake you still have a 30 minute drive to the lodge.

Option B: You pay roughly the same cash to get your family seats on an air taxi operator's VLJ all to yourselves and it flies you into a GA airport 5 minutes from the lodge and has already made rental car reservations FOR YOU.

which would you be prone to go with?

Personally i would pick the VLJ over ANY airline. The VLJ folks (mostly air taxi) are going to have to charge about the same for their equipment as it might cost to get seats for 4 on an airliner but the selling point is going to be privacy and convenience of the travel.

FAA expects to have 5,000 VLJs in the air within the next few years, industry analysts say thats TOO conservative that it will likely be 3 or 4 times that number

VLJs = definitely something to watch in the next few years.

[chornedsnorkack]

so lets say your corporate department or even your charter company wants a jet but your business is only catering to 2 or sometimes 3 personnel or customers at a time.  

Do you buy a king air C90 or 200 or 350? Do you say "well we really want a jet." and go with a Learjet45 or a citation? because if you do your going to have 7 to 12 seats that are not doing anything on every flight. thats impractical and very costly from a business perspective. ideally you want at least 80% of your seats occupied in order for the flight's costs to be justifiable.

So lets say you buy a piaggio avanti - with its 9 seat cabin, 7 seats will usually be empty, but with the eclipse jet with only 4 or 5 seats there is no empty dead loss factor...

these VLJs are supposed to be smaller, more fuel efficient and faster than dated turboprop equipment.

But what about non-dated, brand new turboprops the same size as VLJ-s? They would be slower, but would they be less fuel efficient?

[RitterKreuz]

the only brand new turbo prop equipment the same dimensions and weight class of a VLJ i can think of is a Cessna caravan - a whopping 180 knots. thanks but no thanks.

to each his own, if you want to take a turbo prop by all means do so, i fly one nearly every day and i love a good turbo prop...but to the average person any airplane with props on it is automatically straight out of world war two, trust me i deal with that stigma every day.

Most people prefer jets. - fact of life.