...and boy are my arms tired...

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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby Brett_Henderson » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:19 am

Maybe. But if he was taking someone with him, or was doing delivering things or something like that then I'd be suprised if you were allowed to do all that on a bog standard VFR PPL.


Good point.. And that would be covered by having the commercial rating (which many pilots get along with their instrument rating (many get commercially rated without an instrument rating))..

They only grey area is taking the co-worker along. He couldn't even technically pay you out of his pocket even with the commercial rating (if the flight is over 50nm). You'd just have to have an agreement that he was along for the ride. He is allowed to pay for 1/2 the plane rental and any other flying expenses, and I know this type of thing is common-place. It's just a matter of book-keeping
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:26 am


Good point.. And that would be covered by having the commercial rating (which many pilots get along with their instrument rating (many get commercially rated without an instrument rating))..


Thats the sort of thing I was getting at. It's like driving boats for a living. You can have your yachtmasters but before you can get paid you need to get a commercial endorsement.
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby dcunning30 » Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:42 am

While at Midway, did you make it to the A concourse and see the Battle of Midway exhibit?  It's geared to the uninformed, but it's good to kill a few minutes anyway.  Also, O'Hare Airport was named after Butch O'Hare, Navy pilot during WWII.  He singlehandedly downed 6 Betty bombers that were heading to the US fleet.  I attempted to do that in CFS2 and it ain't easy to do it and get away unharmed.  Anyway, O'Hare has a F4F Wildcat at the Butch O'Hare exhibit.
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby Chris_F » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:04 pm

I can see one BIG problem with flying myself for work (other than the fact that I don't fly...)

Imagine scheduling a trip to visit a customer.  You get stuck in bad weather.  Not awful weather, but you're not comfortable flying.  You delay.

You call the customer.  Customer is angry.  Customer calls your boss, your boss's boss, your boss's boss's boss.  None of these people understand avaition.

Boss's boss's boss calls you and chews you out, demanding you either get in the air or don't show up to work ever again.

Congrats, you just lost your job or you're dead.

At least if you're delayed in an airport everyone understands what that means.  When you're flying people don't understand what that entails.  To them you're just being lazy and blaming it on the weather.
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby Hagar » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:09 pm

[quote]At least if you're delayed in an airport everyone understands what that means.
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby beaky » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:35 pm


Good point.. And that would be covered by having the commercial rating (which many pilots get along with their instrument rating (many get commercially rated without an instrument rating))..

They only grey area is taking the co-worker along. He couldn't even technically pay you out of his pocket even with the commercial rating (if the flight is over 50nm). You'd just have to have an agreement that he was along for the ride. He is allowed to pay for 1/2 the plane rental and any other flying expenses, and I know this type of thing is common-place. It's just a matter of book-keeping  ;)


Yes, I've looked into this a little; the bottom line as far as flying on the clock goes is that it falls under "furtherance of a business" or whatever the wording is. I wouldn't be getting paid to fly, and as long as everyone has their stories straight, although the FAA is not really keen on flying pax from A to B, as if a taxi operation, they could not prove the co-worker didn't just decide they wanted to ride along. In fact, if it's a round trip, I believe the "taxi factor" doesn't apply at all in their eyes. It is a gray area indeed, which is good and bad.

 I probably couldn't have the company cut me a check equivalent to airline fare or whatever, but I could get something back by perhaps submitting it as an expense. And I know i could write it off tax-wise.
Regardless, I'd be content to pay the bulk of it  (cash-flow allowing, of course) and just collect my day's pay at my usual rate.

I'll have to make sure, of course, that I know all the legal ins and outs before I do this, and it's probably not worth trying until I have my IR. Maybe a trip that I could feasibly make by car if I had to cancel the outbound leg due to weather, or one that ends with me returning over the weekend anyway...but  I still feel that in the end, I'm just as likely to miss an appointment or get home late while relying on the airlines as I am to rely on my PPL.


The notion that a client may gripe ("why didn't you just send him on an airline?") is worth considering, but I'm not in sales or management, so I don't represent the company in that sense (meetings, etc.); generally all they care about is that the work gets done by the deadline. If I had to dig in my own pocket to get a last-minute airline flight , a train or bus ticket or rental car, I'd still probably spend less than the bulk of a couple days' rental on a club plane, and I'd still get there in time to do my thing.

Flying myself could be less-than-efficient sometimes, but I wouldn't have to check my bags and tools, stand in line in my stocking feet, or try to sleep in a chair at the gate... that's worth a lot to me.  ;D
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby beaky » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:39 pm

While at Midway, did you make it to the A concourse and see the Battle of Midway exhibit?  It's geared to the uninformed, but it's good to kill a few minutes anyway.  Also, O'Hare Airport was named after Butch O'Hare, Navy pilot during WWII.  He singlehandedly downed 6 Betty bombers that were heading to the US fleet.  I attempted to do that in CFS2 and it ain't easy to do it and get away unharmed.  Anyway, O'Hare has a F4F Wildcat at the Butch O'Hare exhibit.


No; I arrived and left via concourse C... didn't even know it was there.
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby Brett_Henderson » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:06 pm

At least if you're delayed in an airport everyone understands what that means.  When you're flying people don't understand what that entails.  To them you're just being lazy and blaming it on the weather.



Well.. I guess that would depend on the caliber of the people you're doing business with; what they think of you going in; and relationship your company has with theirs. People in a position to make the choice; and the people they'd be dealing with; make that point almost moot.
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby Brett_Henderson » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:13 pm

Imagine scheduling a trip to visit a customer.  You get stuck in bad weather.  Not awful weather, but you're not comfortable flying.  You delay.


What you're comfortable flying in, is the key. If you're a competent instrument pilot, flying a plane certified for flight into known icing..  the times you'd not be able to fly, would be far out-weighed by the time would save, with a plane at your disposal, flying on your schedule.

When you throw in all the other stuff (no 2-3 hours wasted at the beginning of each flight, no lost luggage, ever... no connecting flight delays, no overbooking)..  in the long run, you might even come out ahead.
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby Chris_F » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:24 am

Well.. I guess that would depend on the caliber of the people you're doing business with; what they think of you going in; and relationship your company has with theirs. People in a position to make the choice; and the people they'd be dealing with; make that point almost moot.

I guess I'm a little sensitive to it as I'm often sent in to salvage a relationship that's already gone sour.  So I deal with the irate customer alot, and once they're irate they're very rarely rational...
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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby TacitBlue » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:43 pm

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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby FLYING_TRUCKER » Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:12 pm

We have an old saying in the Airline Industry:

"Time to spare...go by air"... ;)

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Re: ...and boy are my arms tired...

Postby eniranjanrao » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:02 pm

To think that you can fly and some has screwed up your day really bugs you the only thing is pray that you win a sweepstake so you can buy one to fly yourself. ;D
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