Reason for NY Planecrash 11th Oct.

[Arnimon]

Today i read a notice in our Local Newspaper.
The Planecrash from 11th Oct. in NY was caused by a slight crosswind. Baseball Profi Cory Lidle tried to make a turn over the River and was pushed aside about 120m in the direction of the Building by a slight Crosswind. To get the turn succesful under these conditions it would have been necessary to turn in a very sharp way so there was a great possibilty for stalling.

[TSC.]

Apparently he was making a steep turn at about 700ft ASL, which is very low for steep turns aswell, unfortunately they left themselves no room for error, be that by stalling in a steep turn or by being blown wide by the wind - I saw a video about it, reconstructed by crash investigators in a sim (FS9 if I remember correctly), although I thought about posting a link (in the interest of aviation), I felt that it might not be appreciated by all of us.

Cheers,

TSC.

[Arnimon]

I saw a video about it, reconstructed by crash investigators in a sim (FS9 if I remember correctly), although I thought about posting a link (in the interest of aviation), I felt that it might not be appreciated by all of us.

Might be so,but,to speak for me,i found the news in the Papers of some interest.

[beaky]

The plane wasn't "pushed aside"... they were just not far enough towards the other side of the river to make a 180 safely in that wind without banking continuously at about 54 degrees. Supposedly witnesses saw that the initial angle of bank was not that high, and although they banked more as they got close to the building, it was too late.

The VFR exclusion extended from one bank of the river to the other, but before they turned, they were cruising almost straigtht up the middle. Would've been better off doglegging to the east to the very edge of the Class B first before turning around...

The altitude of a steep turn makes no difference whatsoever, except to the extent that if you screw up and stall in the turn, having enough altitude to recover would be helpful.
But they didn't stall... they just cut the turn too close to an obstruction and struck it.

[TSC.]

Might be so,but,to speak for me,i found the news in the Papers of some interest.

I find it interesting aswell, we can all learn from the mistakes of others through things such as crash investigations, nor do I have any problems talking about it - the reason I didn't post the link was because I do not live in America, so I really have no idea how popular or famous Cory Lidle was/is.

The sad thing is that if they had made the turn the other way, then things would probably have been fine.

[quote]The altitude of a steep turn makes no difference whatsoever, except to the extent that if you screw up and stall in the turn, having enough altitude to recover would be helpful.

[beaky]

The sad thing is that if they had made the turn the other way, then things would probably have been fine.

Hi Sean, my point was that, although they didn't stall in the turn, if they had, then they would've had a very difficult time correcting it safely from 700ft ASL. I think it's just good practice to leave steep turns to slightly higher altitudes, at least if it all goes wrong you've still got room to make ammends.

Cheers,

TSC.

Roger...

True, they could have gone a little higher and still been legal, and with a little more thought, being right in the middle and knowing the wind was out of the east at better than 10 knots, they'd have made a decent 180 to the right... might even have kept it inside the exclusion with that wind. Not that it really would matter- I'd rather deal with having busted the airspace than flying into a building!
But one of the problems with that corridor was that they were (loosely) following the unwritten protocol that northbound flights travel on the east side, then turn to the left to go south on the west side. This is also the case over the Hudson, but it works much better there, because it's twice as wide.

Although many, many similar flights were made quite safely in that narrow box, I'm kind of relieved that they've shut it down. It was a trap, not worth the trouble of getting out of it safely.
Although I'm ticked-off that they waited until people got killed...

[C]

But they didn't stall... they just cut the turn too close to an obstruction and struck it.

Mmm - two things strike me here. Either increase the angle of bank to avoid the building (maybe a little daunting low down for a low time PPL), or more sensibly roll off the bank (quickly if necessary) and avoid it?

Bizarre incident indeed...

Hi Sean, my point was that, although they didn't stall in the turn, if they had, then they would've had a very difficult time correcting it safely from 700ft ASL. I think it's just good practice to leave steep turns to slightly higher altitudes, at least if it all goes wrong you've still got room to make ammends.

It was a Cirrus IIRC? I'm sure that a steep turn (talking 60deg AoB) could quite happily be performed with an adequate handful of power. Again, maybe it would be a question of experience - but he was flying with quite an experienced pilot beside him IIRC too...

[beaky]

There is a lot about it that doesn't make sense, without assuming that they made too many assumptions.

As for aborting the last part of the turn and rolling out to the west, that building is not the only big one nearby... I can only assume that once they realized it wasn't working as planned, they chose to bank more, but not soon enough. Who knows?
 They may have even had a moment of fighting over the controls; it's been known to happen, even with two very experienced pilots.

[Brett_Henderson]

I'm going to show my ignorance (and laziness.. but it always is more fun to ask stuff here of SimV's incredibly diverse and knowledgable members)..

Is that corridor closed completely to GA ?  Can you file a flight plan to sight-see up through there .. that would allow for a safe and reasonable penetration of airspace ?

I know it's only Charlie airspace here in Columbus.. And KOSU's Delta airspace (along with two other Delta airspaces) is nestled sung under it..  But if you want/need to sight-see or photograph stuff; all you need do is contact Columbus approach and declare your intentions.