Boeing vs Airbus

[The Ruptured Duck]

With Airbus expected  to break their deadline on the A380, and a troubled A350 program, who do you think is going to come out on top when compared to the 787 program.   I read that Boeing is also behind scedule, but their shares are selling better than airbus.

[Jakemaster]

Boeing!  They have so much more going for them.  The 787 will blow the A380 and the A350 out of the water.  It is more economical and Im sure that more airliners will purchase the 787 than the Airbus birds.  And with the 747-8 coming in the near future, the A380 will have no chance.  Boeing will win in the long run, ive said it before, ill say it again, and I will stick by my word.

[Craig.]

jake the 787 won't blow the A380 out the water, its not even in the same catagory so no market analyst will compair the two in sales.
But yes right now it will beat the A350, as of now Boeings sales for year 2006 are well above airbus' but no-where near those of this time last year so neither company has much to shout about.
The recent firings of the top guys at Airbus show that mistakes have been made on the A380 and the A350 and i'm sure once they get in a new, more competant team or more hopefully person, to run the business, sales will start to pick up.
By years end I think Boeing will have the lead still, but Airbus will have put this crap behind them and hopefully have learned, their knee jerk reaction to the 787 was a bad idea.  

[Nexus]

[quote]Boeing!

[Chris_F]

You seem to think the A380 and 787 are competing for the same customers, that's like thinking Ferrari and Volkswagen Golf are fierce competitors.

A better automotive analogy would be Tour Bus versus Toyota Camry.  :)

But in business terms the two can be compared: how much profit will each lend to the bottom line for their parent companies.  Both companies have invested heavily in each, and it's apparent that both are betting a substantial part of their future on the success of each.  But, since both are in different markets both could succeed or fail independant of the other.

I think Boeing is making the smarter move.  It has nothing to do with the airplanes themselves, the technology, or the design.  It's all about the market.  The trend for airline passengers is direct, regional to regional flights, not hubbing.  The 787 is the perfect plane for this, an upgrade to the existing, extremely popular 737.  The A380 is built for hubbing, and passengers just don't want to fly to a hub, change planes, fly to another hub, change planes, then fly to their destination.

Hubbing used to be quite popular as airlines focused on cost per passenger seat mile metrics.  But airlines like Southwest showed that direct regional airlines not only could find customers, but could make air transportation much cheaper than hubbing strategies.  The 737 was their plane of choice, and the plane for the future for this strategy will be the 787.

Hubbing still has its place today, for long haul international type flights.  It just isn't economical today to fly from Manchester to Tokoyo direct.  So for these flights hubbing will remain popular (I assume through Heathrow?)  That's the A380's market.  Unfortunately I just don't see this market expanding at the same rate as the regional direct market.  Especially as the 787 expands the range at which direct regional becomes cost effective, that will free up lots of airframes that used to hub those routes, and those airframes may take up spots that could be filled by new A380s.

Time will tell...

[Woodlouse2002]

I think once airports are equipped to cope with the A380's then it will succeed. A380's arn't exactly selling like hot cakes but they are selling and as some of the current 747 fleets age and need replacing, suddenly there's a choice for the first time ever.

[Nexus]

I'm not

[Jakemaster]

What I meant to say is that the 787 will be a more successful aircraft than the A380, not that they will be directly competing with each other.  I honestly believe that the 787 will be the definative airliner when it comes out, its projected to be very cost efficient which makes it appealing to many different ailines, both for busy domestic routes and long international routes.  The A380, albeit in a different category, just doesnt seem as practical as the 787 or the 748.  Its just too big.  First of all its way too large to fly into many airports, not because of runway length but because of parking space.  Already at some airports airplanes are way to close to each other in parking, and there is no space for a huge plane like the A380 (and for the same reason the BWB makes no sense for a successful airliner).  With the A380 I think that airlines will run into more problems than solutions, trying to fill a plane that large with passengers will be difficult both in ticket sales and at the gate.  The 748, on the other hand, isnt really THAT much different from the 747, its just more modern and uses some new technology to make it more efficient.  Many airlines use the 747, and it seems like it would be smarter from an economic standpoint to only buy maybe one or two A380s, but when the 748 comes out it might be a good idea for these airlines that already operate the 747 to replace their aging fleet with the new and improved 748.  Thats why Boeing will come out on top in the long run.  The 787 promises to be one of the best airliners in history, and the 748 makes a great airliner even better.

[dcunning30]

The A380's are having production issues.

[Chris_F]

[quote]I'm not

[Mictheslik]

AIRBUS, purely because I live in Bristol and half my friends parents work for them, and if I dont say AIRBUS I'll be murdered.

I am also not a fan of American companies, especially Boeing.

On the planes, i think that the A380 will replace ageing 742 stocks of airlines, that have previously stuck with the Jumbo. As for the A350, it will be better than the A340!!! Quite a feat considering the A340 holds the record for the longest passenger flight, and enables people to travel long distances in luxury.

.Mic

[Craig.]

sorry mic, but the A350 is actually close to being cancelled if it hasn't already.
They are having to go right back to the design board with it. Since its competing with the 7E7 not the A340 its got a hell of a job to do, since the 7E7 is going to blow just about every record for that size plane out the water. the new 777 will blow the A340's records for passenger flights out the window first though.

Nexus/ Chris.
There is already design work going on at Boeing for the 737's replacement. i'll try to find some info on it if I have time. But I do remember reading something from Boeing about it.

Please remember guys, the A380 is competing with itself. Not the 747-800. The 747-800 is being designed to fill the gap between the 777-300 and the A380.

[Mictheslik]

well it wasn't cancelled when i checked the Airbus Intranet a couple of weeks ago, in fact they had started assembling a prototype fuselage.

.Mic

[Craig.]

like I said, its close then.
Airbus have said themselves it needs a complete redesign,

[Jakemaster]

AIRBUS, purely because I live in Bristol and half my friends parents work for them, and if I dont say AIRBUS I'll be murdered.

I am also not a fan of American companies, especially Boeing.

On the planes, i think that the A380 will replace ageing 742 stocks of airlines, that have previously stuck with the Jumbo. As for the A350, it will be better than the A340!!! Quite a feat considering the A340 holds the record for the longest passenger flight, and enables people to travel long distances in luxury.

.Mic

I thought the 777-200LR holds the record for longest flight of a passenger aircraft....

But the A380 will NOT replace 742s, Boeings own 748 will replace those