The Army's Apache attack-helicopter had a bad war.

[Hagar]

I doubt we would have done. We've had the Harriers for 35 years in various forms, and to be fair, in a European conflict the A-10s were already operating in Germany and at RAF Bentwaters in the UK...

Quite so but I wonder how the unit cost of an A-10 compares with a Harrier - or a WAH-64 Apache for that matter?

[RichieB16]

The Apache might look menacing but in the end it's still a helicopter with a complex rotor system & all those whirling bits. I suspect that a few well placed shots in the right place (the rotor or the tail rotor), even from a machine gun could bring any low-flying helicopter down.

From the stories I have heard, when they showed up the enemy usually took cover.  Not many kept firing because of the armament of the helicopter.

Of course, the stories I heard involved Cobra's which are quite a bit smaller (so harder to hit).  So, perhaps it was slightly safer.  I don't know...I just know what my father told me and I believe him.

[SilverFox441]

Are we talking about "new-build" A-10s or aome of the old ones that the US has laying around?

Given the capability of the A-10, I really think that someone should market some new-builds. There are more than a few countries that could use a plane tht cheap to operate and capable.

Maybe the Russians could even buy some to replace their A-9s...err...SU-25s.  ;)

[Ivan]

Kamov beats AH-64 in agility... the thing was designed for pop-up attacks against low flying planes and other helicopters... wait until target is overhead, pull up to 90 degrees and fire.

From the stories I have heard, when they showed up the enemy usually took cover.  Not many kept firing because of the armament of the helicopter.

Sounds much like the 'Satan's chariot' story... perhaps the training department had some US sponsored encounters with Mi-24's in Afghanistan...

[Hagar]

Kamov beats AH-64 in agility... the thing was designed for pop-up attacks against low flying planes and other helicopters... wait until target is overhead, pull up to 90 degrees and fire.

Sounds much like the 'Satan's chariot' story... perhaps the training department had some US sponsored encounters with Mi-24's in Afghanistan...

Ivan. We all know you like all things Russian but just remember that it's not always better just because it happens to be Russian.

I don't know but imagine that Richie's Dad's experiences were in Viet Nam. I don't know much about helicopters (never trusted the darned things myself) but Hueys & Cobras were used extensively throughout the Viet Nam war & from all accounts they were very effective. This might have been due to the terrain they were operating over which was very different to conditions in Iraq. Both are comparatively small & have twin bladed rotors which would be much more difficult to hit from the ground.

Helicopters are fine when used for the right job in the right operating conditions. I think the attack helicopter concept is flawed & in most cases a conventional fixed-wing aircraft like the A-10 would be far more suitable. It would probably also be a lot cheaper to produce, easier to maintain & more economical to operate.

[cheesegrater]

What are the right conditions for a helicopter to operate? Nobody shooting at it?

[Ivan]

What are the right conditions for a helicopter to operate? Nobody shooting at it?

Nobody shooting at it, sealevel, 15C.

[C]

Nobody shooting at it, sealevel, 15C.

...Engines off, crew having cup of tea in cafe...

[beefhole]

...Engines off, crew having cup of tea in cafe...

And in a real aircraft, one whose ugliness is not its chief source of power...