Silly question

[Ex-RoNiN]

With the recent changes in EU legislation with regards to insuring vintage aircraft, I was thinking that there might be an easy way around it - rather than refurbishing and "fixing" existing aircraft....why not just dig out the original building plans and build a couple from scratch? That way they are new, don't need expensive maintenance, and think of the advantages too (higher quality wood, stainless steel, etc.)

/me waits for billions of reasons why this can't work

[Hagar]

I don't think the age of the aircraft has anything to do with it. The new insurance directive goes on weight. This puts some of the larger multi-engined warbirds (like B-17 Sally B) in the same category as a Boeing 737. Having scanned through the directive I'm sure it's intended for commercial passenger-carrying aircraft & the warbird & the air display aspect was completely overlooked. I suspect the truth is that nobody involved in drafting these regulations even considered it.

I still think there's a way out by adding an exemption clause for display aircraft. This needs doing properly in an organised way, not piecemeal by individual warbird owners. It will take time but I'm sure they're working on it.

[Ex-RoNiN]

Whilst this has helped me understand the directive a bit better, I'm still none the wiser about why we can't build some new "old" planes? Wouldn't it be cool to build a few new Mosquitos/Lightnings/B-17s/etc every few years to make sure they keep flying, rather than relying on the real planes from the war?

[C]

Whilst this has helped me understand the directive a bit better, I'm still none the wiser about why we can't build some new "old" planes? Wouldn't it be cool to build a few new Mosquitos/Lightnings/B-17s/etc every few years to make sure they keep flying, rather than relying on the real planes from the war?

Someone actually has the jigs to build new build Mossie fuselages in NZ.

The other reason this is not viable on any scale is emphasised by projects such as the FW190s in Germany and the Me262s in the US. The Me 262s in particular suffered serious finacial problems during the project. Even when you look at historic aircraft, such as the Spit there are often occasions when it is difficult to find a buyer for the genuine item...

The other problem of course is who's going to buy and operate them - the operating costs would still be roughly the same.

[Hagar]

Part of the attraction has always been in seeing the original aircraft flying. In the same way, owning or even seeing a replica motor vehicle would not be as satisfying as seeing a beautifully restored original example.

New warbirds are being built, like the Me 262 project with modern engines that recently flew in the US. Beautiful they look too. Before his facility was destroyed by the recent hurricanes I saw enough brand new fuselage sections stored in Tom Reilly's warbird restoration hangar in Florida to build several brand spanking new B-17s. Then there's the WWI replicas like the Sopwith Triplane in the Specific Aircraft forum.* So accurate it's regarded as a late production model.

The late lamented Charles Church once told me if I could find him a genuine manufacturer's nameplate for a WWII Spitfire he could build me a Spitfire to rivet it onto. This would be regarded as an authentic WWII vintage Spitfire.

*PS. http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=types;action=display;num=1119065647

[C]

The late lamented Charles Church once told me if I could find him a genuine manufacturer's nameplate for a WWII Spitfire he could build me a Spitfire to rivet it onto. This would be regarded as an authentic WWII vintage Spitfire.

*PS. http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=types;action=display;num=1119065647

Much the same way the Historic Flying Ltd does now!

[Ivan]

Did you know you can get your Yak-11 (big radial engine trainer) converted into a Yak-3...

Apart from ONE example (that uses the original engine and has working guns) any flying Yak-3 originally was a Yak-11, as the cannon cannot be removed from the engine.

[ozzy72]

There is one nutter around here doing just that at the moment with a Spit.... odd bloke
Oh and wifey is giving me serious grief over parts in the hall now (honestly it is just a couple of boxes!). Women
There are at least 3 "genuine" Spitfires under construction at the moment (2 in the US and one in Hungary), and a Mossie in NZ that Chris has mentioned.
The real problem is genuine parts and getting them certified. I've had loads of trouble tracking down instruments (if anyone has any let me know), and Merlin engines are rarer than hens teeth

[C]

Personally I'm happy with any restoration that starts with any substantial remains of an aircraft - lets face it, if it had been flying for the previous 60 years much would have been replaced at some stage anyway during servicing and maintenance.

On Ivan's point, we've been fortunate to see Yak-11/3 conversions in the UK already (although we've only seen the French based on fly over here), one of which is owned by OFMC and has just re flown after "restoration" in NZ (it had arrived from Russia after its conversion in the mid 90s, but from the amount of work that had to be done after it had arrived I don't think it was up to UK airworthiness standards on initial delivery). I'm sure TFC had one in the pipeline too...

[ozzy72]

A company called Eastern Birds in Romania are the people doing the Yak conversions. I'm trying to contact them about alclad prices (I really am struggling to buy any here!)