My First Flying Lesson ?!

[-sam-]

Hi there,

After years of virtual flying I decided to take my first
realworld flying lesson. I found an airfield/Flyingschool
near my home that offer (I don

[Brett_Henderson]

If you can physically fit (I cannot) in a 152, it (or a Piper Tomahawk or a Beechcraft Skipper).. it's the easiest, least expensive way to at least start learning. It won't take you long to realize you'll be ding most of your post-training flying in the likes of a C172 or PA128, so the sooner you start flying them, the better.

The prices you mention sound like they include instruction ? I'm not up on the exchange rate so I'll just use $US. Right now (fuel prices just went down) a C172 where I fly rents for $80/hr..

[TacitBlue]

If your first lesson is anything like mine, which was only a few weeks ago, then the instructor will probably take off, let you do part of the climb-out. Then once above the clouds and wind, let you do a few turns, climbs and descents. My lessons cost $60US per hour/73.8 Euro - gas, instructor, rental all included. But I understand that this is a rarity, and probably the cheapest in my state.But my instructor is an old retired guy whose plane and private airport are payed off, so he can afford it. I would also suggest the 172, because they are very comon, and if you ever want to rent an airplane in the future, chances are it will be a 172. Oh, and be prepared to continue paying, because once you take that first lesson, you won't want to stop  ;)

[C]

Unless you want to take somone with you in the back I see little point in paying the extra for the 172. Flying in Europe is never cheap, and so save money wherever you can. From the point of view of training, for a JAR PPL you are going to need a minimum of 45 hours (some take longer) - doing it in a 152 will cost a minimum of 1350 Euros less than the 172. You can then spend some of the money you've saved on converting to the 172 (2-3 hours of flying - about 500 Euros ) or doing something fun, like a tailwheel conversion on a Piper Cub etc...

As for the size issue, I'm pushing 192cm/6ft4 and had no trouble in the C152

The way it would normally work is after a thorough briefing you will fly in the left hand seat, as the aircraft is fully flyable from both seats, and even if the instructor has control for the first part of the flight, he will get you to "follow him through" on the controls (placing your hands and feet lightly on the controls so you can feel what the instructor is doing.

The most important thing - enjoy it...

PS, 140 Euros works out around

[Rocket_Bird]

Hi there,

I would say that 170 EUR / hour is quite expensive for a C172 (here its costing me 190 dollars Canadian before landing fees out of an International Airport, which is a bit less in euros),  and I would probably go with the 152 instead.  Of course, if you can afford it, the C172 would otherwise be my choice.  Ive never tried the 152 myself, just the 172, and i must say its a pretty good aircraft.  

From your first lesson, you can probably expect an easy going tutorial.  Your instructor will let you sit on the pilot seat, and maybe let you taxi.  The instructor will take control, probably do the takeoff and climb to a safe altitude where he/she will allow you to do some turns and stuff.  With comparison to car lessons, flight lessons are a bit different, as you normally get a demo, and then the practical.  Flight lessons can be a bit overwhelming at first too (not the first flight, but probably starting from your second and third), whereas in a car, you basicaly practice all day doing turns and staying in the lane.  

Flying lessons in my part of the world again costs about $190 Canadian (little bit more expensive then most other flying clubs here as well).  For each lesson (usually a little over an hour), it costs me between 200-250 each time i go up.  The whole PPL cost depends on the student.  Can be anywhere from 40 hours to like 100 hours or something like that (i dont really know the stats).  I think it also depends on where you fly and what you fly.  As I don't live in the UK, and our currency is a little different, 140 eur/h is still pretty expensive for my pocket

Anyways, i hope you have fun.  

[beaky]

Hi Sam- here's my comments.
#1: main reason I switched from 150/152s to 172s was when I started flying beyond the home airport for training, it saved me time enroute to and from the practice area. Compared to a 172, a 150 climbs like a brick. I actually saved a little money that way. However, I'm glad I started in a 150 for learning the bare basics- it's slower and less powerful, but it's also less 'forgiving"- you will learn more about use of rudder and trim in a 150. I highly recommend starting in the 150, then moving up to the 172 for maneuvers and cross-country stuff.

#2: If it's at all like here in the USA, your first lesson will be an "intro flight". It will be a real lesson; you will be doing most everything except  moving the rudder, with the instructor coaching you and keeping his/her hands near the controls at all times. you can log this lesson time towards your  Private Pilot certificate (or equivalent).
Get yourself a logbook , and bring it with you. Ask the CFI to sign off for your intro flight. Don't forget to bring sunglasses, either!!;D


#3: Not sure, but it sounds like it's more expensive in general in Europe than it is here in the USA. Right now, in the New York area, average price per hour for airplane rental and instructor is about $100 US, give or take. It depends on the aircraft, etc. When I was in a flying club, my dues were $30/month, but I was only paying $45/hr US for renting a 172 (about four years ago).  
I'd suggest you try to find a fluying club near you- the savings could be tremendous, and most clubs have members who are CFIs.
Good luck!!

[C]

As Rocket and Rotty have just found out, flying (or anything involving oil based products) on this side of the pond tend to be a lot more expensive. Thats partly the why so many Brits have gone over to Florida to do PPLs etc. Unfortunately we're now all branded with the same iron as the terrorists of 9/11 and have an administrative night mare to deal with in the TSA, which adds several hundred pounds (Visas/paperwork) and a trip to the USA before training starts (for fingerprinting)...

[Jakemaster]

I can't help, as I am yet to take lessons since my mommy is scared ,  but can anyone seriously say that playing flight sim makes real flying easier?  And, do you really see much similarity between the real thing and the simulator i.e is flight sim really 'as real as it gets'

Sorry, one more thing, so how much would it cost in total to get a PPL, meaning, If you put the cost of flying, an instructor, and the lisence together, how much would it be?

[-sam-]

Thank You very much for your comments !
I think I will take the 152 for my first and save
some money for my second lesson .
oh I

[C]

They'll probably be able to sell you a proper logbook wherever you take your lesson. I imagine it would be about 5 to 10 Euros.

[beaky]

I can't help, as I am yet to take lessons since my mommy is scared ,  but can anyone seriously say that playing flight sim makes real flying easier?  And, do you really see much similarity between the real thing and the simulator i.e is flight sim really 'as real as it gets'

Sorry, one more thing, so how much would it cost in total to get a PPL, meaning, If you put the cost of flying, an instructor, and the lisence together, how much would it be?

FS is not quite the same at all, and not just because there is no "feel" there  (the "seat of your pants" is a valuable instrument in RL flying), but I agree with those who say it helps. There are some things that are the same, like sequencing tasks (checklist) and the timing of events, and it helps give you an idea of how things should look in the pattern and on final.
FS is also a great tool for learning navigation and communications procedures, although RL conversations with ATC are quite different in RL.
 So in short: it helps, but it is NOT a substitute for RL training.

In answer to your second question:
The total cost of getting a PPL in the USA varies according to many different factors. Mine took about twice as long and cost about 1/3 more than the average, because of scheduling, high CFI turnover, lack of money, etc. I wound up taking about 2 yrs. and  $7000 to get my PPL.
 But as I said, that's not the average, which is more like one year and $4000.
 Some ways to save $$ on this:
-Find a school at a non-towered field, not too close to a big city. There will be less delays (you pay for every minute that engine is running), no landing fees, and probably slightly lower aircraft rental rates and fuel prices.
-Pay a big lump of money up front. Most schools offer a discount if you fork over about 10% of the estimated total cost up front.
-Try to fly as many consecutive days in a row as you can, esp. when starting out. It's easy to lose your edge if you only fly once a week or once every two weeks,... your CFI will have you reviewing a lot, which eats up more money.
-Join a flying club. Some have heavy initiation fees, but not all. And the rates for rental and instruction will be much lower in general... a major savings despite monthly dues. I wish I'd gone this route when I got my PPL...

- You could of course go the college-degree route, esp. if you'd like to fly commercially some day. With financial aid from gov't loans, grants, etc. you could get a lot of training in a short period.

[C]

FS is also a great tool for learning navigation and communications procedures, although RL conversations with ATC are quite different in RL.

Thankfully Microsoft didn't program the ATC so that some pilots give there entire life story over the radio...

...I get amazed by the standard of some people's R/T. How could they have got their R/T licence in the first place?

[Rocket_Bird]

Here to get our radio licence, all it really needs is for you to know the phonetic alphabet, know how to mayday and pan pan, and thats about it.  The rest is handled by the instructor  ;D

[Craig.]

As Rocket and Rotty have just found out, flying (or anything involving oil based products) on this side of the pond tend to be a lot more expensive. Thats partly the why so many Brits have gone over to Florida to do PPLs etc. Unfortunately we're now all branded with the same iron as the terrorists of 9/11 and have an administrative night mare to deal with in the TSA, which adds several hundred pounds (Visas/paperwork) and a trip to the USA before training starts (for fingerprinting)...

to be fair thats a little harsh. getting a student visa for a flight school is a little tougher than standard college but not much. Its

[Brett_Henderson]

I can't really say how long and how much the whole PPL cost for myself. I was well over 80 hours logged before taking the checkride. Probably was ready at 50 or so, but was in no hurry, as I wasn't going to take anybody up with me until I had 100 hours anyway.

By the time I was actually licensed, I had logged over 30 hours of cross-country, pilot-in-command and was 3/4 of the way through finishing the requirements for an instrument rating (which I did not finish for years (just last October to be exact)).

So.... the best cost/time/analysis I can come up with is for getting IFR rated. Adjusting for inflation.. plan on 120 hours minimum.. and $13,000 US.