Woman Walks into Propeller?!?

[Hagar]

Actually; I had the opportunity to try that once.
Once.
I was around 15-16; can't for the life of me remember what the aircraft was; it was one of those Pup-ish private jobbies that collect in hangar corners. Anyhoo; the owner was one of the Cadets' sponsors and he let me swing the prop - with a great deal of talking to beforehand. Hey; I felt like a man striding out to that thing with him - reliving 'the romantic days of early flight' and all that, with images of SE5's and Camels and Jennys, etc.
Of course; then I got up to it and realized I was about to hand-start a gigantic food processor and would be standing right in its direction of travel....
and realized I wasn't exactly the most co-ordinated kid - a typical gangly teen...
I said "huuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh..... no." and backed off.
I'll watch the 'romantic days of early flight' thanks.

Strange you should say that. When I worked at the flying club we often had a number of air cadets, usually CCF lads from Lancing College, taking flying scholarships during the summer months. The ones I was involved with in the 2 years I was there were all nice lads & willing to do anything to help. They enjoyed refuelling the aircraft, moving them around, taxying them to & from the hangar on the other side of the airfield & suchlike but the thing they all seemed to want to do most was swing those props. I never figured out why. When they asked me to teach them I told them to speak to the CFI (Chief Flying Instructor) about it as I couldn't do it without his permission. Health & safety regulations weren't as strict as they are now but it was still a big responsibility for someone the same age as them. I'm proud to say they all took notice of what I told them & we never had a single mishap. My being a senior NCO in the ATC at the time didn''t do any harm. Those boys were a great help to me as the club was run on a small budget. I enjoyed having them around.

On a more serious note - one that just occurred to me: Someone else mentioned helos on this thread. You never, never, never walk 'round the front of an idling aircraft - and never, never, never walk 'round the tail of a helicopter - both for the same reason. I wonder how many preoccupied people have screwed that up and met nasty ends forgetting that rule?

That's a good point. It seems obvious but it might be easy to forget if you fly both fixed-wing & helicopters. I've never been involved with helicopters myself. Never flown in one either.

[Craig.]

The most interesting thing i noticed when down on the base with my dad was, how many times some of the guys had to be reminded about walking round the back of the Lynx. Because they usually worked with the gazzel where its not a big problem because of the enclosed tail rotor. They would start to wonder back while it was running. Quite scarey in some cases.

[Staiduk]

I'm proud to say they all took notice of what I told them & we never had a single mishap. My being a senior NCO in the ATC at the time didn''t do any harm. Those boys were a great help to me as the club was run on a small budget. I enjoyed having them around.

Yeah, Air Cadets are great kids - by and large lots of fun to work with  with tons of heart. I worked with them right through my Army career, teaching, setting up dog 'n ponies, etc. Bringing 20 or so teens out into the field for a weekend with the reg. force and let them pretend and have fun - tons of fun for all. The real fun was when we occasionally reciprocated; letting the soldiers who helped out come to a Cadet gliding weekend. Great to see the kids suddenly in their element; bossing the soldiers around.

As for swinging props; it'd never be allowed nowadays with perhaps overly-cautious safety rules, but they'd all love to.

I'm just a total chickensh#$ about that sort of thing though.

[Saratoga]

Swinging props, ah the good ole' days of aviation.

I remember about three months ago, I had flown from my home airport down to an airport that was actually closer to my house, but was uncontrolled and didn't have an FBO on the field. Well they had a guy who would come out there every afternoon and wash the airplanes. When he did he checked everything he could, really nice guy who had been in the Air Force for his entire life and had retired and still wanted to be around planes. Well, he walked up as I was getting out of the plane and asked if I would like him to wash it, and in my total stupidity, left the battery on, endangering him as he cleaned around the engine. (Battery is on, mags could be hot) Next morning I got there, of course the plane was dead as a doornail and no one else was on the field. Got my handheld comm radio out and was going to see if anyone was on the CTAF frequency and ask if they knew if there was a power cart anywhere, naturally no one was there. So I put the parking brake on, eventually hand propped it, got in the plane and flew back up to the airport. Walked in explained my predicament to the CFI behind the counter and he told me a guy was killed earlier in the year handpropping the same airplane after he forgot to set the brake. I don't see how someone could forget, but apparently it's easy to do.

On another note, I have now made it a hobby to take that Air Force guy up every time I see him, sometimes to just putter around in a Cessna, sometimes to do some basic aerobatics in a 150 Aerobat. Gotta have some fun sometimes.

[Hagar]

Ah, we've all done our share of stupid things. I certainly have. The first thing I was taught about swinging props was NEVER do it on your own without someone in the cockpit. I thought this was simply because I was young & inexperienced as I'd seen others doing it. One day I found out for myself how dangerous it can be. Our aircraft were not only hand-swung but they were taildraggers without wheel brakes which meant you never started the engine without chocks in place. A combination of no chocks & swinging the prop on your own can be potientially fatal as I found out. Needless to say, the first time was the last I attempted anything so stupid.

A chap I worked with had worked at Gatwick Airport when it was a small grass airfield. He obviously had lots of fascinating stories to tell. Apparently one of the private owners he knew had a Piper Cub which can be hand swung by someone standing behind the prop. This also gives access to the throttle & mag switches. Anyway, this chap often used this method to start his Cub & one day forgot to set the brakes. I have no idea what he was doing but the throttle must have been fully open. When the engine fired it ran flat out. With no brakes it proceeded to take off & fly around on its own quite nicely. It ended up buried in the side of a hangar roof. Meanwhile, the ower had been knocked over by the wing struts.* He was lucky just to lose the aircraft.

[beaky]

The other important  thing about having someone in the cockpit is to have a PILOT in the cockpit, or so I've heard... The Cub-propping thing reminds me of those military scout variants (L4 Grasshopper) that were launched from Liberty Ships back in WWII, after conversion of large LSTs into mini aircraft carriers proved too costly and time-consuming to meet the demand... the pilot would lean out with a foot on the landing gear and swing the prop from behind while the plane was dangling over the side... they also recovered the planes with the hook. Imagine taking off like that, then flying out over the battlefields to spy on the enemy...in a Cub!!  Ulp!!!
I'd heard of this long ago, but refreshed my memory here:

http://www.geocities.com/airbornemuseum/sld026.htm

There's a picture way at the bottom of the page of an L4 hanging from the "Brody device"...

[Hagar]

[quote]The other important

[Saratoga]

Personally I don't hand prop anymore on anything with an electric starter. If the battery is dead, postpone the flight. No if's, and's, or but's about it. It's not worth risking someone's life. Even in a modern airplane with advanced brakes, there can be a problem, I wouldn't want to put anyone, myself, the mechanic, or the fuel guy in danger. Not to mention the entire city if the plane got airborne.

[Hagar]

I haven't done it for over 40 years but I reckon I could hand-swing a prop now if I had to. It's perfectly safe providing you know the procedure & follow the rules. All aircraft & engines have their own little ways. I would never attempt to swing a prop unless the wheels were chocked, even on aircraft with parking brakes. Most aircraft carry a set of chocks on board nowadays.

PS. I wouldn't feel confident swinging the US engines with clockwise rotation (viewed from the cockpit) fitted to most modern lght aircraft. We had an Auster 5 at Shoreham with a Lycoming engine. Although I was highly experienced & swung our own aircraft every day the owner wouldn't let me try it as he said it was far too dangerous. All our aircraft had engines with counter-clockwise rotation so they were swung with the right hand. This would obviously depend on whether you were right or left-handed. Most people seemed to be right-handed in my young days.

[beaky]

I know what Hagar means about pilots, but remember that cuts both ways- to wit my earlier-posted story about finding a pair of vise grips still clamped on a Dzus fastener on the cowling during preflight. Pretty sure I found a wrench inside the cowl, once while adding oil. But that may dirve home Hagar's point: if mechanics can't be trusted with such things, pilots are definitely out!! And BTW, i'm sure you're right about the L5. I'm bad with model names unless they fit: like "Cub" or "Grasshopper".

And I agree with saratoga about hand-propping electric-equipped birds. If it isn't the battery, it's some problem that's best dealt with on the ground. I've seen that before- typically starter motors that won't turn properly or won't engage or disengage...

[Hagar]

I know what Hagar means about pilots, but remember that cuts both ways.

There's good & bad in everything. I've met a few pilots over the years who should never have been allowed anywhere near an aeroplane. The chief pilot of a small airline run by my boss had very little idea of what went on under the bonnet (hood) & refused to listen to the advice of our chief engineer at the time. Consequently he was always reporting faults that he'd caused himself by not following the correct procedures. I'm sure he never appreciated that & probably still doesn't. He didn't last long & the last I heard of him he was flying for a major airline.

I recall an incident at Biggin Hill where the chief pilot of another airline smashed up a perfectly good aircraft during a "forced" wheels-up landing. This was entirely due to him not knowing how to operate the emergency gear pump which was found to be fully serviceable after the incident. The pump handle had to be pulled out from under the panel before pumping it up & down in the usual way. I seem to remember that this was written in big letters on the big red knob on the end of the handle. "Emergency Only - Pull Out before use" This idiot had been flying around for 1 hour pulling the handle in & out from under the panel instead of up & down. All this time he was reporting over the radio that he was pumping like mad but nothing appeared to be happening. Nobody thought to ask him which way he was pumping the bloomin' handle as he was the chief pilot after all. Fortunately he was not hurt.

i'm sure you're right about the L5. I'm bad with model names unless they fit: like "Cub" or "Grasshopper".

I think that "Grasshopper" is a generic term first applied to light aircraft used by the US sevices for spotting/liaison purposes during WWII. There were several examples including Aeronca, Stinson & Taylorcraft types - & of course the ubiquitous Piper Cub.

[Staiduk]

Bact to the story at hand; OTOH I remember a woman that backed into a propeller once....

Disaster.

[Hagar]

Bact to the story at hand; OTOH I remember a woman that backed into a propeller once....

Disaster.

Would that disaster be the woman or the prop? A chap I knew at school once cut off a woman's nose with the prop on a control-line model aircraft. The engine was a small diesel about 1.5 cc. She walked straight into it. Props can be dangerous whatever they're fitted to.

[C]

They enjoyed refuelling the aircraft, moving them around, taxying them to & from the hangar on the other side of the airfield & suchlike but the thing they all seemed to want to do most was swing those props.

Strange young fellows - I'll take Terry-Thomas' lead and have Eric Sykes (or similar chappy/chappess) swing it for me...

Just thinking about it makes me want to burst into song...

[singing]Those magnificent men in their flying machines...[/singing]

[leaves room]

Charlie

[Staiduk]

Dis...ast...er.  ;D

(Rimshot)

(Leaves quietly....)  ;D