Grand prix oil leak

[Gunny04]

Fuel filter outside the gas tank? I'll jack it up tomorrow and have a look and see if its there. And if so I'll go buy a new one and see if it helps any. Thanks for that advice.... looks like I'm on car maintence duty tomorrow.

Gunny

[Chris_F]

well it was around 25-30F out when I started it..... Didnt give it a chance to warm up before revving it, that could have killed it I bet,

I'd be suprised that a modern (EFI, non carborated) engine would have any issues unique to idling cold versus idling hot.  It should idle just fine cold and rev without any problem.  I had a car of similar vintage that displayed similar problems (only when cold) and it turned out to be related to the ignition.  This car (and probably yours) had a distributor (instead of a more modern distributor-less ignition).  In my case the distributor was simply worn out and the plug wires needed some help.

Here's how to test.  Get a spray bottle of water.  Start the car cold and in a dark place.  Spray water on/around the plug wires and distributor.  If the car dies or you see a visible spark then you need to replace whatever sparked.

I think that if the car is having a hard time idling at cold and it has a distributor than that distributor should be strongly suspect.  At cold the mechanical clearances between points and pickups are larger and it becomes harder to throw a spark across them to fire the spark plugs.  This would be consistant with the symptom you described of the "engine only running on a few cylinders" as the spark gap would probably be worse for one or two cylinders than for the others causing those not to fire.  Once the engine heats up these clearances close up a bit and the engine probably runs fine, perhaps a little off if things are REALLY bad.  If you know what you're looking for you can visually check the rotor/points/pickup to see how bad they look.  (another free troubleshoot.  Always do the free stuff before spending money on parts).

Certainly this is more likely than a fuel filter problem (which should be more of a problem at fast engine speeds where the demand for fuel flow is higher versus idle with its low fuel flow requirements).

[Gunny04]

I think the car just needs a tune up... I am heading out side now to check all the filters and such.

Gunny

EDIT: Being cold and windy its not really worth messing with at the moment (and I cant crawl under the car because of ice in the driveway) heres a few pics from the motor

Air filter is probably under that black thing


Coolant looks black to the naked eye but I used my flash and took a picture... no oil in it


Farther out picture of the engine... Looks pretty clean up top, but I didnt take any filters apart... just too cold

[Chris_F]

I think the car just needs a tune up... I am heading out side now to check all the filters and such.

Not quite sure what a tune-up buys you with an EFI (Electronic Fuel Injected) car.

[Gunny04]

New cars HAVE to be tuned up and by a tune up that means, Fuel filter, Spark plugs, Plug wires, Sensor checks all that stuff.... Basically it means changing the filters and such, plus checking to make sure everything is working basically. I read that it is a mis conception that new cars don't need regular maintence or tune ups.... Hence why a lot of 'stupid' people have 1500 dollar or more repair bills and such....

Gunny

[Gunny04]

I unbolted the air filter and it wont come off  ;D Hmm did I miss something? It hasnt been checked in ages, the bolts are corroded, rusted and were hard to get out....

Gunny

[Mushroom_Farmer]

Taxing my memory Gunny.  ;D I was thinking the air box was fastened by clips, not bolts, but it's been a while. The upper half of the airbox should lift off after releasing clips/snaps, or removing bolts. If it's the actual filter that won't come out then it may be frozen to the box, might also explain your idling problem. Since you mentioned earlier about a crank sensor/trigger that would indicate coil packs (I believe that is correct for this engine) and removes the idea of a distributor. You are also correct in stating that all cars need periodic tune ups.
For the future, coat all bolts requiring removal for routine maintenance with an anti-sieze compound. This will prevent future uttering of bad words.  ;)

[Craig.]

For the future, coat all bolts requiring removal for routine maintenance with an anti-sieze compound. This will prevent future uttering of bad words.

Not true LOL
it took almost 30 minutes of cursing yelling and banging to remove one of my disc brakes. And that was coated in the stuff.

[Chris_F]

Since you mentioned earlier about a crank sensor/trigger that would indicate coil packs (I believe that is correct for this engine) and removes the idea of a distributor. You are also correct in stating that all cars need periodic tune ups.

Look at the photo.  I think you can see all those wires snaking to a distributor at the back right.  It's hard to see but it looks to me like the plug wires are arranged in a circle and pluged in to something hiding behind a tube near that intake manifold.  That implies distributor to me.  And if we're dealing with a car with a distributor than I've gotta point my finger there and check that first before I think it may be something else.  The symptoms are very distributor-like.

I agree that cars need regular maintenance (fluids, wear parts, filters etc, etc).  But usually all that does is keep critical parts from failing and leaving you stranded with big repair bills.  Rarely do tune-ups produce a car that runs noticably better.  I guess plugs make the car run a little better, but only slightly so (unless one is bad).  But there's nothing to "tune", so the term "tune-up" implies the wrong thing.  Unlike the old days (unless a part is bad) it won't take a poorly running car and make it right again.

[Chris_F]

For the future, coat all bolts requiring removal for routine maintenance with an anti-sieze compound. This will prevent future uttering of bad words.

Not true LOL
it took almost 30 minutes of cursing yelling and banging to remove one of my disc brakes. And that was coated in the stuff.

Yikes.  Perhaps in the future you shouldn't be coating your brakes with grease...  :)  Just kidding.  Disk brakes either come right off with just a little convincing or they weld themselves on good.  They just get too darned hot and anti-seize can only do so much.  Did you use the copper based stuff?  I've heard from others that it tends to work better in higher temp applicaitons.

[Craig.]

I'm not sure what it was as it was the first time we changed them after buying my car last year. Either way I know its not something i'd like to do again because at one point I thought it was going to need a new backplate the way my dad was trying to lever it free.

[Gunny04]

The cover itself wont come off.... I think its stuck, Yea the car has a distributor of some kind that I do know. Wow thanks for all the tips here.... That filter hasnt been off in a long time, So when I do manage to get it off tomorrow I'll either not find a filter, or something that looks like a filter thats pitched black or something strange. I want to change the plug wires, spark plugs, fuel and air filter, get the radiator flushed (just for good measure) etc.... but its a front wheel drive.... I don't think I can get the rear spark plugs out, I am not even going to attempt it (Looks to me like you'd pretty much need to take the motor out or pull it forward just to get to em) The only way that stuff will get fixed (if its bad) is to take it in and spend hundreds for mechanics to deal with it. Now if it were rear wheel drive I could handle that.... these sideways motors are irritating....

Gunny

[Chris_F]

I'm not sure what it was as it was the first time we changed them after buying my car last year. Either way I know its not something i'd like to do again because at one point I thought it was going to need a new backplate the way my dad was trying to lever it free.

Personally I wouldn't use anything like antiseize on brake disks themselves for one main reason: the brake disk bites on to the hub through friction alone (from the pressure of the wheel squeezing it on to the hub via the lugs).  Anything which modifies that friction too much can cause the disk to torque, loading the lugs in shear instead of tension.  They'd probably be fine, but there's a chance (small) they'd shear right off freeing your disk and wheel from its hub-centered prison and allowing it to roam the wilds.

Also, the surface that the hub and disk contact is very large which means a lot of antiseize would be necessary to coat those surfaces.  When that stuff heats up who knows where it will migrate to.  You could end up with a whole bunch of grease like stuff on the swept area of your brakes.  Which I guess isn't a bad thing so long as you never intend to stop the car.

Most disk brakes have a threaded hole in them.  You insert the proper bolt and tighten it down until it pries the disk free.  Some don't have this and need to be hammered off.  In that case I usually just get a big hammer, find a place to get a good swing, and whack the rotor repeatedly while turning the hub to keep my blows hitting in different places.  Eventually it'll walk free.  If it doesn't then you pull out the old plumber's torch and heat the hell out of that disk, then do the hammer trick again (only this time you need to be careful because that rotor and hub and lugs are HOT!)

If that doesn't work then put it back together and take it to your local mechanic and let him deal with it.  :)

Hint: you don't want to be my mechanic.  You never get "easy" jobs from me.

[elite marksman]

Gunny, do you have the 3.1 or the 3.4? If it's the 3.1, I'll go check to see if I can find a way to get the rear plugs out, but the 3.4 should be similar.

As for the air filter, just undo the bolts and hose clamp and slip the hose off the filter housing. The top of the filter housing should come right off after that. Granted this is working off of memory of the GM 3.1 V6 and actually looking at the engine in my car, so I may be wrong because my car is 6 years newer and has the GM I4 instead of the 3.1 V6.

[Chris_F]

The cover itself wont come off....

Find the seal where the two halves of the air box meet.  Run your finger around the seal and make sure there's nothing still holding it on.  You'll likely find a spring clip that you missed the first time hidden somewhere.  If not then spray the entire seal between the box halves with a light penetrating oil.  If you don't have something like Kroil or PB Blaster then just use WD40.  It's not great for this but it works.  Give that a moment to seep in and then shake the two box halves to get the oil to work its way in.  Then start prying.

My guess is that you're trying to dis-assemble the box in a manner in which it's not designed to be disassembled.  Once you hit on the right way to do it I bet it'll simply pop right open and you'll feel like a fool that it took you so long.  That's exactly what usually happens to me, only with electrical connections instead of air boxes.  You could also undo the hose clamp that attaches it to the intake and entirely remove it from the car so you can get a better look and more leverage and figure out what makes that box tick.

Given your symptoms I think you'll find a semi-dirty but not awful air filter.