PMDG 747 RELEASED!!!

[Marauder1024]

Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia I can understand, as those are multi billion dollar corporations protecting their product, however I find it kind of crap that a small hundred thousand (if that) dollar company decides that they need to put some huge process into obtaining a licence for their product.

Well, it's their product, their copyright and honestly they can do whatever they want to protect it, but that does not mean I have to agree with it, like it, or keep coming back for more. Some people turned from Microsoft when they introduced WPA. I know I've never been happy about it and I've had times I have had to call to reactivate Windows.

Now, that said, it might make MORE sense for a little company such as PMDG to want to protect their product. If Microsoft, a 400 Billion dollar company, spends 40 million (random guess figures) on the next version of Windows Longhorn, er, Vista (ten thousandth of the company assets), and PMDG a (more random figures) 1 Million dollar company spends 100 Thousand on 747 (one tenth the company assets). PMDG actually has MORE invested in 747 than Microsoft does Windows. Not because of Dollar value, but because a larger portion of the company and it's assets are put into this software.

747 really is an amazing product and lives up to my expectations in terms of detail and realism from flying their 737. It took a lot of work and quite an investment I am sure and I understand that they want to protect their investment. At the same time, watching their site over the past few days, I would guess that with or without protections, they will probably do a fairly good job of recouping their investment and making a decent profit on top.

The other thing that they should think about is ITS AN ADDON FOR A GAME!! Mabe If PMDG was creating the game "747-400 Queen of the Skies" I could see the whole massive sigh over the copy right, but an addon (and an expensive one at that) I dont find justifyable.

Why? It costs as much as most new games. Then again, most new games also don't have compulsory activation.

The 747 is a simulation in and of itself, and in some ways IS it's own game. As a friend and I were talking last night, the goal of the game is not to fly, the goal of the "game" is to learn the operation of a Boeing 747-400. It's really a "game" and simulation by itself that happens to leverage the Microsoft Flight Simulator engine in order to focus on the operation of the Aircraft.

It's more than I would typically pay for a single aircraft add-on, but there is so much more here than other single-aircraft add-ons.

And just a side note (im going to get riped to shreads for this by Stephen but) I cant wate to see how long it takes the pyrates to crack this bird and distribute her over P2Ps. Hell they said that the Level D 767 was uncrackable, and someone did it, so lets just watch and wate.

I don't condone "piracy" and I don't blame people who hijack ships on the high seas, stealing their cargo and killing the crew, for the situation we are in. I do however blame people who violate copyright law for the situation of draconian protections, activations, and DRM that we are now in. However, there are already copyright laws on the books. DRM/activation or no, it's illegal either way. Prosecute people who violate it but remember, in America we are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, it's not OUR job to prove our innocence by calling and asking permission every time we reinstall, it's yours to prove guilt.

That said, you are correct in that this will quickly be broken and bypassed. It's only a matter of time until it pops up all over the seedier side of the net. I would not be surprised if it's already floating around. That's what really upsets me, I spend my hard earned money for a great product, and they feel obliged to shove copy protections down my throught because these idiots start trading it all over the place. In the end, all these protections do, is annoy the customer, they never stop "piracy", or even copyright violation for that matter, only make it harder for the customer to use the product they purchased.

[JBaymore]

Marauder_1024,

Hum.... obviously you are so upset that I would suggest that you contact PMDG, tell them about your opinion of their software policies, point them to this thread here as evidence, and ask them politely if you can detete the product and get a refund.

[Marauder1024]

Hum.... obviously you are so upset that I would suggest that you contact PMDG, tell them about your opinion of their software policies, point them to this thread here as evidence, and ask them politely if you can detete the product and get a refund.

Why would I want to do that? It's a great product, I'm just not too fond of the direction that many software companies are going in terms of the "our customers are guilty until they prove themselves innocent" attitude they show when they introduce measures such as activation.  You seem to be misunderstanding what I am writing here. I like PMDG, I am glad I purchased their 747, but I also am reconsidering if I would purchase more software from them if they keep it up. In the end, activation only hurts legitimate customers. PMDG has gotten their support back online by moving them to a temporary location and while it's not been back up for very long, there are already reports there of people having difficulty activating. As said before, this does nothing to stop real "software piracy" other than slow down the casual "hey, borrow my CD" copier. The hardcore "pirates" always find a way to bypass it in short order, often on the same day of release.

I've worked with computer security (for a fairly large government agency), there is no such thing as a truly secure system, only "secure enough" to make the casual attackers look somewhere else.

I WANTED to give PMDG my money, I have wanted this software for a long time, when I pruchased their 737 I wanted a 747 version and now it's here. I like their products as a company and want to continue to be their customer, but as their customer I believe I have a right to say, "I like you guys but I don't agree with what you are doing in regards to X, Y, and Z". If I did NOT purchase anything and have not given them any of my money, I would have even less of a right, not more, to say, " I don't agree with A, B, and C".

You should stop using their product completely......  it is obviously a "violation" of your sense of what is "right" in the world.  It is just gnawing on you...... and is not good for your sense of being.  Since you have a total of only two postings here in SimV so far and both of them are a "rant" against this situation....... it clearly is a real issue for you.

It's just a piece of software, it's their "right" to include activation, but I don't have to like it.

Just because I was just stumbled back here the other day when I visited the Computer pilot forums and saw a post saying "things are pretty dead here anymore, check out avsim and simviation", had recently purchased 747 (knowing about their activation beforehand) but still less then happy about it, and thus the issue was fresh on my mind, does not mean I am some troll as you seem to be suggesting in not so many words.

I've been to simvation before, this is just the first time I have been in a while after a long hiatus and the first time I've posted in the forum.

You obviously don't know what is and is not a "violation" of "my sense" of what is "right in the world". Or if it gnawing on me or not.

IT'S JUST A STUPID PIECE OF SOFTWARE that happens to have a "feature" I really don't like. Would you have said the same to me if I was complaining that I don't like, say the fact that it lacks a GPS, or I think being able to push around the manuals and soda cans in the 3D cockpit is a stupid waste of resources?

[Marauder1024]

Since many if not most software companies are going this route due to RAMPANT filesharing, I'd suggest that you carefully discuss "activation procedures" with ANY company you plan to purchase from BEFORE you buy.

many are, but I think that's a far cry from "most". Sure many of the big names such as Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia do, and a number of smaller such as PMDG, Stardock, Ambrosia, that's a far cry from "most". In fact, in the game realm, I think that Ambrosia and PMDG are the first two "game" companies that I am aware of doing that, and I play quite a few games.

The thing is, copyright infringment is a real problem of course, but I believe it is vastly overblown by organizations such as the BSA (Business Software Alliance) as they tend to pump up the numbers to claim larger damages then they are really experiencing and gain more sympathy with lawmakers. My biggest beef is that it makes me feel like I'm being treated like a criminal in a guilty until proven innocent society.

I have also noted some of my other issues with the practice above (such as what happens when the company decides to stop supporting the product or goes out of business). It has not been and issue yet, but companies come and go and what will happen when, five years down the line, you try to reinstall Windows XP on an old computer (perhaps as a school system for a child) that won't run the latest and greatest version of Windows 128 bit Nanotechnology Edition, only to find that Microsoft is no longer supporting any version that runs on the otherwise perfectly good computer. I still find myself periodically installing Windows 95 and 98 on real old systems, somehow I don't think they would activate them anymore, and on top of it, Microsorft just the other month dropped
support for Windows 2000, which is still fairly widely used. How much longer would they allow that to activate before forcing new installs to upgrade to XP?

I was fully aware that PMDG had some sort of activation before I made the purchase, I purchased/licensed despite that "feature" and knowing what I was getting into. They pretty much tell you on their website if you look into it and research before buying like I do. That said, I knew what I was getting into before I "licensed" the software (that's another thing, most software try to treat it like a sale at time of transaction and then try to transform it into a license after the fact)

That said, knowing what I was getting into does not mean I have to be happy about every little detail about it and scream "give me more!"

I am sure there are plenty of things you have purchased, or licensed, that you are happy you got even though there is one or two things that rub you the wrong way.

I'd also suggest that whenever you see information on the net about illegal filesharing of music, books, moviesd, and software that you go out of your way to try to communicate this to the appropriate authorities.

And how do you know I don't already try to fight such mass infringment.

[Marauder1024]

All of that said, I really do like the product as a whole and will enjoy many hours of time as I learn and better understand the 747-400 systems. I don't want to get off on a bad foot here, it's just that that issue was fresh on my mind and this seemed like a place to let off steam.

[ctjoyce]

In regards to your rant on piracy im already watching Lime Wire (yes I have pro, and pay the $20 a month for it) for the Pirates to Crack the 747, and when they do I plan to inform PMDG of it, so that they may take the appropriate actions.

>Let the copyright flame wares begin<

Cheers
~CTJoyce

[jrpilot]

Why is it that there is some much talk of piracy with the PMDG 747?

Compared to the 737 which wasn't really talked about with piracy.

I know PMDG now has you make an internet connection when you buy the aircraft, is this to stop thieves?

I am going to wait a few weeks or months and then go buy the 747 after they update that wind noise I keep hearing about also I just bought the LDS 767 a few weeks ago and it is a blast to fly.  The 747 looks fantastic.

[Nexus]

Junior, regarding PMDGs requirement of an internet connection when you purchase:
How else would you be able to download it?  ::)

Flying another route atm, will post shots soon so keep an eye out!  :)

[Marauder1024]

Junior, regarding PMDGs requirement of an internet connection when you purchase:
How else would you be able to download it?  ::)

By download on a secondary, network connected computer before burning to CD for transfer to non-networked (air-gap security) Flight Sim PC.

The activation requires that an internet connection be present at the time of INSTALLATION, meaning that it cannot be installed on a computer that is permanently (perhaps for security reasons, perhaps for logistical, etc.) not connected to the Internet.

This can be a problem on a stand-alone, non-networked, dedicated flight sim system.

[Nexus]

I guess marauder missed the point....nevertheless it's an awesome aircraft  8)

[Marauder1024]

nevertheless it's an awesome aircraft

Yes it is, as always with PMDG, the level of detail is amazing.

[jrpilot]

[quote]
Junior, regarding PMDGs requirement of an internet connection when you purchase:
How else would you be able to download it?

[Hammerpgh]

I am very keen to purchase this product but this whole validation mess is stopping me. The fact that some people are still not able to use something they bought 3 days ago because of this process isn't really acceptable.

Also, the limited re-install issue is a headache. Seems that you only get a few attempts before they lock you out and require you get a new manually approved authentication, which again seems to be taking far to long to action.

I understand the need to prevent piracy but inconveniencing those who pay hard earned money for it is not the way forward.

[smashie]

Well to be fair to PMDG after my HD failure a little while back, I had my pair of beech's back in the in the air in less than 24hrs.

[Nexus]

Allright I got an interesting tale for ya.
I bought the plane 2 days ago.
Today I got infected with multiple viruses (that's what a disabled firewall can do for ya!)

So I had to format my windows drive, install windows again and FS9+PMDG744. For the 744 I just went to PMDGS site, logged on their Ecommerce system and downloaded the file again.

No hassle at all  :)