Flight Simulation

[Flying Trucker]

Goodly afternoon all...

Got a little time this afternoon as the old girl is out playing Bridge with some other nattering nannies...

I got thinking about a new computer system for flight simulation and several things came to mind.

Now a computer sitting on a desk top with a flight program like FS2004 or FSX programmed into it is not a Flight Simulator, it is a game.

The reason I say that is because there is no motion and no chance of Spatial Disorientation, Vertigo or several other known problem which can occur during a real flight.

Now the multi-million dollar motion simulators that the airlines and military have can simultate the above problems but not a table top system with no motion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation

I think the best a table top computer without a motion chair can be called is a Learning Tool.

Now having said that I have been searching for a motion chair or a unit which will do motion with the home computer at a reasonable price.

[H]

You, of course, haven't had the CFS interaction. Low level at the airfiled, with an ME109 on my tail, I made a sharp bank around the hangar and... "Whoa!" ...there was a tree! I tipped over my seat (still clinging to the joystick), clonked my head (mildly, thankfully); flying the plane while rising from the floor (didn't crash and the Me109 didn't match my turn with the Hurricane), I'm reaching back and forth from the joystick and the attempt to upright the seat...

No spatial distortion... no vertigo... no real interaction... whatever do you mean?

8-)

[Souichiro]

Well my desk chair is actually an AWACS seat...( controller not pilot XD) so I suppose that makes it more real.....Once you get your motion seat try and find an old cub fuselage XD make your own simpit!! 

[Steve M]

I simfly mostly at dusk and I only set up IFR flights on my days off work when I have more time.
This seat should give you some good action for cheap..


                           


                                       8-)

[patchz]

I have to disagree with you Doug, to a point. You are correct about the vertigo, motion, and spatial disorientation, but I think Flight Sim is a little more than a game. I would say it is a 'partial' simulator, limited to visual and

audio, and much improved by devices such as TrackIR. But I think a motion chair, would also lend more credence.

As to:

How many of you fly:
-at night
-during the day
-between dawn and daylight
-between dusk and night

How many folks actually sit down and program a flight, VFR or IFR and actually fly that simulated flight?

I wonder how many here like the low and slow versus kick the tires, light the fires and go?

I fly all of the above except IFR, but night flying is only about 2% of the total. My 'night' vision was never very good and due to age and diabetes, has become a lot worse.

As you know, I prefer low and sorta slow, but speed is a pretty wide variable for me. I do submit a flight plan and fly point A to point B on occasion, but Free Flight pretty much describes it for me. One area you did not

cover was weather. I fly in all sorts of weather, depending on my mood, or Mother Nature's mood when I choose real world weather. If you find the perfect 'inexpensive' motion chair, let me know. I might save my pennies.

BTW, H's reply reminded me, you should see my chair in motion when I am flying nap of the earth through some canyon or a few feet above a narrow river with lots of trees or cliffs on each side.

[Flying Trucker]

Goodly evening all...

Well the old girl didn't win at Bridge today and she is in the kitchen baking.
She will not come out and rock my chair and make engine noises...

[Jared]

How many of you fly:
-at night
-during the day
-between dawn and daylight
-between dusk and night

it isued to be I would bounce back and forth between all parts of the day and stick to VFR flight in the simulator.

Since building my new PC and getting back into the sim with FSX I go with real world time and real world weather. If the weather is IFR then I file an IFR flight plan and fly IFR until I run into a hop where the weather changes back to VFR.

As far as the motion seat goes I'm thinking I would rather spend money on flight lessons in the real thing before I spend any more money on the flight sim hobby.

[Flying Trucker]

Thanks for the reply Jared...

I will soon be hanging up my flying breeches and spurs because of age mostly. 

Going to be doing more simulated flying which is why I want things as realistic as possible.

The old girl is going along with me on this one...

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[JBaymore]

Doug,

Drop down into the "Homebuild Cockpits" forum section and look round at the older posts.  Ther are a lot that relate to motion and simple simpits and such.

Motion gets pricey very FAST.  Suspending a heavy simpit on the gimbals and making it actually work is a bit of engineering.  People have homebuilt that stuff.... but you'd better have a machine shop in your basement.  The commercial platforms for "home" stuff are still expensive.

If you would be satisfied with sort of a motorcycle frame and a monitor type thing... the price comes ways down.  But to even sit a Cessna 172 simpit on a motion base would be a LOT of money.

I can tell you that even in my non-motion simpit, I can still get some spatial disorientation.  Having the pit fully enclosed, some tactile in the seat from the bass shakers, and the visual reference "out of a window frame" and filling the whole field of view....... it tricks the mind into thinking that the simulated ground is the real "level" and the window frame IS in a bank.

best,

...............john

[patchz]

[quote]Doug,

Drop down into the "Homebuild Cockpits" forum section and look round at the older posts.

[Flying Trucker]

Goodly morning all...

Thanks for the idea John...will do...

Our oldest son is going to build a home motion flight simulator at the old homestead.  It will be in a separate room, probably the old girls craft room as it was huge with three large windows and that is the only room that I can think he would use that could be easily divided with wood and drywall.

I thought he might put it in the barn as the hangar is open most of the summer and does tend to get dusty.  But no, it is going in the house.

Our son is out flying his C17 spam can right now so when he finishes his tour he said he would get at it... ...have also been waiting for the bottle of Scotch he borrowed several years ago...    

Wish I could find that download site I had which showed the motion chair and unit it sat on.  It could also be dual.  It was made in the United States and was very reasonable, perhaps several thousand United States dollars which is not bad really. It was not enclosed.
I think Doug "Hagar" did find it for me once and how I lost it, don't know.   :-X

Am limited for room now as this is only a three bedroom and the third bedroom is my computer room while the the second bedroom acts as a guest room and the old girls craft and computer room.

The home simpit could not be very large, not sure how enclosed it could be and as this is a poured concrete building I would have to watch just how much noise this thing would generate as noise/vibrations travel through cement.
That is why I liked the American motion chair as it was compact and the whole unit could be placed on a rubber pad to absorb the noise of the electric motor(s).

Thanks for the input Larry...

One of the reasons I am holding off purchasing Payware is I would like to have the entire unit put together all at once so I know where I think I stand.

I like your idea of several monitors but what I am waiting to see is how two or more monitors would work with a motion chair as they would all have to move with the main flight screen monitor or it would defeat the purpose I think.
Partially enclosing the unit with light weight material would not be a problem so it is a matter of finding the right motion unit at a reasonable price and building from there I think.

Again thanks for the feed back gentlemen...

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[JBaymore]

Another solution to the external view is using a projector(s), Doug.  Really large image(s) and simpler and lighter than multiple monitors.


best,

................john

[Flying Trucker]

Thanks John...never looked into that...will now...

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug