Things I always wanted to know

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Things I always wanted to know

Postby Flying Trucker » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:18 am

Good morning all.... :)

Why is the Island(bridge) on an aircraft carrier on the Starboard(right) side and not the Port(left) Side?

I only though of this the other day and wondered why the carrier's Island(bridge) is on the right and not the left side of the ship? The first carriers didn't have a Bridge or Island, so who decided it was going to be on the right side, and not the left?

And another is why is the landing area angled to the left and not the right? Almost everything in the Military is right side oriented, so why not have the landing deck angle to the right and the bridge on the left?

The first aircraft carriers with islands were HMS Glorious and HMS Courageous, both converted from cruisers. The decision to place the islands on the starboard side was probably due to the routing of the stokehold fan intakes and the boiler uptakes. Ship's engine, boiler and gear rooms are rarely symmetrical about the longitudinal centreline.

The fliers of the Royal Naval Air Service would have trained and practised take-offs and landings on these two ships and would therefore have been used to the island to starboard configuration. This is an obvious reason for the following carriers of the Royal Navy to be similar.

When the USS Lexington was designed, she followed the same example. During the First World War many US citizens flew French and British military combat aircraft well before the United States entered the war on the side of the Allies in 1917. Some would have trained with the French and British before and after the US entry and those with carrier experience would also be familiar with carriers having starboard side islands and would have been the nucleus of the burgeoning US Naval Wing.

The design of aircraft carriers until after the Second World War incorporated aircraft lifts (elevators) accessing the below deck hangars located on the carriers' longitudinal centreline which meant that they were on the flight path. The angled deck was developed to enable flying-off to continue while at the same time the forward centreline lift could bring more aircraft up and be stored forward of the island to the right of the angled deck. As it is always advantageous to fly-off into the wind with the carrier going ahead, the siting of the island makes it obligatory for the deck to be angled from starboard to port. The angled deck presents a shorter take off run of course, but the invention of the steam catapult made it viable. The background knowledge and patents for the angled deck and steam catapult were made available by the Royal Navy to the United States Navy both as members of NATO and as what Winston Churchill described as members of 'The English Speaking Alliance'.

Source(s):
Jane's Warships

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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby H » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:49 pm

Why is the Island(bridge) on an aircraft carrier on the Starboard(right) side and not the Port(left) Side?
Would you expect the loading cranes to smack things in the Bridge Island in the process?

...who decided it was going to be on the right side, and not the left?
Certainly, the right side... only the wrong side would be left.

During the First World War many US citizens flew French and British military combat aircraft well before the United States entered the war on the side of the Allies in 1917. Some would have trained with the French and British before and after the US entry and those with carrier experience would also be familiar with carriers having starboard side islands and would have been the nucleus of the burgeoning US Naval Wing.
To my knowledge, U.S. fliers had little or no carrier experience during WWI; experiments were essentially completed after said war. The angled deck was an upgrade to those carriers having survived WWII.

The angled deck presents a shorter take off run of course, but the invention of the steam catapult made it viable.
This isn't the entire truth -- although adding from port to starboard, the angled deck carrier also requires less stern-to-aft length of the carrier for the same amount of deck take-off on a stern-to-aft carrier.

Feel free to notify Jane's of these edits.
;)


8-)
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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Flying Trucker » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:52 am

Hi "H"

Think I will let a Navy type notify "Janes" as they would know a lot more about ships and boats than I do.

Jane's is still a very good source of reference though and I believe most government authorities use their information.

However like everything else the information is only as accurate as the source it came from.  Makes me wonder about computers and access to the internet in the Junior and Senior School system.
Are the children really getting the correct information or what some computer programmer just input because that is what someone gave them?

Thanks for your comments... ;)

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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Hagar » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:01 am

Good morning all.... :)

Why is the Island(bridge) on an aircraft carrier on the Starboard(right) side and not the Port(left) Side?

Hi Doug. One explanation I've seen is that early naval aircraft turned to the left more easily (an effect of engine torque). Obviously such an aircraft can execute a wave-off to the left more easily, so the island was put to starboard to be out of the way.

I've read that there were a lot of accidents when the latest Seafire XV was introduced at the end of WWII. Early Seafires had the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine which rotated clockwise as viewed from the cockpit. The later Seafires were fitted with the Rolls-Royce Griffon which rotated in the opposite direction. Pilots used to the earlier Marks instinctively applied a bootful of right rudder to counteract torque when full power was applied after a wave-off. This usually resulted in a collision with the island, often with fatal consequences.

Another thing I always wanted to know. Why did the throttle lever on French & some Eastern European aircraft work in the opposite direction from British & US-built aircraft? This was still in use on jet aircraft well after the end of WWII. The idea of pulling the lever back to increase power always seemed most unnatural to me. ::)
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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Flying Trucker » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:52 am

Good morning Doug... :)

Thanks for the input and as for the direction of throttle travel I do not know.
It would seem odd to me as well and I am wondering if they still do it that way?

I have heard the Royal Navy is having two new Aircraft Carriers built right now.  I wonder how they will be powered?

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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Hagar » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:16 am

Hi Doug. I can't find any reliable references on the back-to-front throttle. If my remaining marble is functioning properly I seem to recall that the French aircraft manufacturers finally came into line with the rest of the world in the early 1970s.

All you ever wanted to know about the new Queen Elizabeth class (CVF) Future Aircraft Carrier. http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/cvf/

The MoD has decided not to use nuclear propulsion because of its high cost, and has chosen an podded propulsion system based on Rolls-Royce's integrated electric propulsion (IEP) system. The contract for the propulsion system was placed in October 2008.

The propulsion system will consist of two Rolls-Royce Marine 36MW MT30 gas turbine alternators, providing over 70MW and four diesel engines providing approximately 40MW, with the total installed power approaching 110MW.

As a matter of interest I believe the legendary test pilot Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown is employed as a consultant on the design of the CVF. He must be in his nineties. You can't keep a good man down.
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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Flying Trucker » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:16 pm

Good afternoon Doug... :)

Thanks for the Link, I got the same information from one of our children just before I saw your Link.  Interesting read.   ;)

Not being a Navy man myself but two of our son's have flown as exchange pilots for several years off aircraft carriers and our one daughter fly's choppers off navy ships.

I was talking with one of them through MSN and like me they do not understand why the Royal Navy did not go nuclear with these ships.
The ability to stay at sea for seven days without replenshment is a joke, thought the Royal Navy would have learned it's lesson from World War Two in the Pacific Theater.

They also seem to be skimping on armour and weapons as well.

I think there is way too much politics involved in military planning when it comes to equipment, most politicians have no clue or care less what the military has.

Second best is not good enough and apparently to me anyways the Royal Navy has not learned it's lesson yet.

We here in Canada now have a Prime Minister who is building the military back up and from what we see from his actions second best does not count.
It will be a slow job but we hope to see the equipment we will use in the future being developed and built here in Canada.
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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Hagar » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:19 pm

Not being a Navy man myself but two of our son's have flown as exchange pilots for several years off aircraft carriers and our one daughter fly's choppers off navy ships.

I was talking with one of them through MSN and like me they do not understand why the Royal Navy did not go nuclear with these ships.
The ability to stay at sea for seven days without replenshment is a joke, thought the Royal Navy would have learned it's lesson from World War Two in the Pacific Theater.

They also seem to be skimping on armour and weapons as well.

To be honest I'm surprised those carriers haven't been cancelled altogether. The Royal Navy is a pale shadow of its former self. This is the current state of the fleet. http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/fleet-today/
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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Flying Trucker » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:34 am

Thanks for the Link Doug...interesting read... ;)

I have heard many times that Canada had the largest Navy at the end of World War Two.
I believe that to be in number of ships but not in size or weight.

We need three ice breaking aircraft carriers for the three oceans that border us, the Atlantic, the Pacific and the Artic Ocean.
There are plans for a new base in the Artic as many countries now want to claim it and we will not give it up.

We are finally seeing things progress here in this country, it is going slowly but things are moving ahead.   :)

Hope they do not cancel those aircraft carriers but I also hope they do not build them as a useless floating barge.   ;)

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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby H » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:58 pm

The Royal Navy is a pale shadow of its former self. This is the current state of the fleet. http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/fleet-today/
Looks like someone said"Friggit!" and that's mostly what you got...


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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby TacitBlue » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:28 pm

I don't know much about boats or navy type stuff, but I have noticed that speed boats and small fishing boats almost always have the steering wheel on the right side. Maybe it's some kind of maritime tradition to put the "driver's seat" on the right, the same way that American cars always have it on the left. Just a thought. ;)
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Re: Things I always wanted to know

Postby Flying Trucker » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:42 pm

I think we need a couple of Navy types on here to straighten us out.... ;D

I was on a large Navy ship and the control was a joystick, no wheel, surprised the hell out of me.

What happened to Navy Tradition?

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