Tribute to those who have fallen.

[Hagar]

I don't know if your grandfather volunteered or was drafted. It doesn't really matter as I'm pretty certain he would have preferred to be somewhere else. It's politicians that make war but the ordinary people that have to go & fight their battles for them.

He was fighting for the future of the whole world, not just my country. I wonder what he & his mates would think of the mess we made of it. Before you take that as another insult, my late father-in-law was fighting alongside them & I know what he thought about it.

My grandfather was ...lmao...frankly, weird, at times he reminded me of Patton. Though I admired him immensely, he could be a complete jerk.....lmao. As to what he'd think of today's society. He'd be totally discusted and wonder why so many good men died for it.

Precisely my point. I know that a lot of WWII vets feel the same way.

[Jet Black1]

No disrespect intended. This is why I usually keep my big mouth shut as I realise any comments I make will be taken the wrong way. Post as many tributes as you like. I'll keep quiet in future.

PS. Please show me where anyone has said something disrespectful in this topic.

The comments about WWII for one- my grandfather was there and fought for your country.

You speak of those who didn't really want to fight, but had too-

A supplemental Draft Registration that was used in case the US ran out of young men. Do you realize what this implies? The US was willing to sacrifice all it's young men for the war.

The comments on Vietnam and remarks made in the past by many other forum members just make it not worth the hassles I go through to post these things. So I simply will not bother again.

Well this is what I actually said. I don't understand how anyone could take it as being disrespectful.

[glow=yellow,2,300]What nobody seems to mention is that many of those were ordinary people who didn't want to be there. Ordinary men & women that were called up (drafted) with no choice but to go & do as they were ordered. This is not meant to take anything away from them as they were just as brave, if not more so, as those that volunteered.[/glow]

I don't know if your grandfather volunteered or was drafted. It doesn't really matter as I'm pretty certain he would have preferred to be somewhere else. It's politicians that make war but the ordinary people that have to go & fight their battles for them.

He was fighting for the future of the whole world, not just my country. I wonder what he & his mates would think of the mess we made of it. Before you take that as another insult, my late father-in-law was fighting alongside them & I know what he thought about it.

My grandfather was ...lmao...frankly, weird, at times he reminded me of Patton. Though I admired him immensely, he could be a complete jerk.....lmao. As to what he'd think of today's society. He'd be totally discusted and wonder why so many good men died for it.

No disrespect intended. This is why I usually keep my big mouth shut as I realise any comments I make will be taken the wrong way. Post as many tributes as you like. I'll keep quiet in future.

PS. Please show me where anyone has said something disrespectful in this topic.

The comments about WWII for one- my grandfather was there and fought for your country.

You speak of those who didn't really want to fight, but had too-

A supplemental Draft Registration that was used in case the US ran out of young men. Do you realize what this implies? The US was willing to sacrifice all it's young men for the war.

The comments on Vietnam and remarks made in the past by many other forum members just make it not worth the hassles I go through to post these things. So I simply will not bother again.

Rom, you post what ever you want to. As I said the internet gives itself to this type of thing readily. Far more people can view that sort of thing than if you put a poster up to commemorate a particular day. As a Brit, we seem to do it differently and that was my question, not why do you do it in the manner you do, but why do we not. I myself am 5th generation military, possibly the last. It is today not a thing I would recommend to my children, however, if they made that choice, then they will have my full support.
An interesting point that you make is the continued view that the public has about Vietnam, after all a soldier is just a politicians tool he has no say in the matter. Do you think that in time (depending how long the job takes), Iraq veterans will be accepted as the very early Vietnam Vets where or will the tide of public opinion come full circle and nothing will have been learnt

[H]

Ugh... I make one complimentary entry in this thread and return hours later only to find the whole flavor changing. Neither do I see this as truly political; this seems more to do with one nation's attitudes against itself pursuant to another's. The reading almost makes the British seem accused of jealousy over lost patriotism, even by refuting it.
Aside from faded empires and local wars, I've mentioned, at other places and other times, to remember the military forces of other U.N. member nations; the U.S. soldier is not the only one in the line of fire. There is one factor that has bothered me since researching WW1: Britain did not credit well their, if you will, auxiliary members (Canadians, New Zealanders, etc.). This was most apparent in the air commands; U.S. volunteers were not considered par, either. Sometimes it seemed just short of "If the home fellows weren't there to observe, we don't believe you." It sometimes gave the feeling that the enemy was thought more highly of. Somehow the attitude seems to have twisted in on itself as the Australians, Canadians, etc. proved themselves; they faced the odds, sometimes insurmountable, and did their best to hold fast; British and U.S. troups fell side by side or loaded and fired once more.
The U.S. is still young compared to European nations; although primarily Anglo-Saxon affiliated, it was already a mongrel breed sourced from many nations when it began. The older nations have known who they are for a long time, rather having patriotism inherent. In the U.S., showing patriotism meant as much as being patriotic: "I am an American, my former life is past." Don't attack us, we will unite in our defense -- don't attack our friends, we will unite to defend them; the most difficult thing, though, is when our friends bicker....

:-/


8-)

[Hagar]

The U.S. is still young compared to European nations; although primarily Anglo-Saxon affiliated, it was already a mongrel breed sourced from many nations when it began. The older nations have known who they are for a long time, rather having patriotism inherent.

This might not be the right place but if I wasn't scared of upsetting someone we could have a very interesting discussion on this subject. I think the whole point is that Britain has lost its sense of national identity. Americans are seen as knowing exactly what it means to be American. The British people no longer know what being British actually means.

[Romulus111VADT]

The U.S. is still young compared to European nations; although primarily Anglo-Saxon affiliated, it was already a mongrel breed sourced from many nations when it began. The older nations have known who they are for a long time, rather having patriotism inherent.

This might not be the right place but if I wasn't scared of upsetting someone we could have a very interesting discussion on this subject. I think the whole point is that Britain has lost its sense of national identity. Americans are seen as knowing exactly what it means to be American. The British people no longer know what being British actually means.

I've heard that allot about the British youth, it's a shame. I hope that it won't take another megalomaniac to come knocking on English shores to get them to realize how quickly what they take for granted can be lost. Freedom is not free and the cost of it is terribly expensive in human lives. This is proven by history and by the millions that have died for the ideal of freedom.

It's sad how those that have it can so easily take it for granted and those that don't are so willing to fight and die for it.

[Hagar]

The U.S. is still young compared to European nations; although primarily Anglo-Saxon affiliated, it was already a mongrel breed sourced from many nations when it began. The older nations have known who they are for a long time, rather having patriotism inherent.

This might not be the right place but if I wasn't scared of upsetting someone we could have a very interesting discussion on this subject. I think the whole point is that Britain has lost its sense of national identity. Americans are seen as knowing exactly what it means to be American. The British people no longer know what being British actually means.

I've heard that allot about the British youth, it's a shame. I hope that it won't take another megalomaniac to come knocking on English shores to get them to realize how quickly what they take for granted can be lost. Freedom is not free and the cost of it is terribly expensive in human lives. This is proven by history and by the millions that have died for the ideal of freedom.

It's not only the youth. They had an interesting radio discussion on the subject a couple of weeks ago. Listeners from different age groups & ethnic backgrounds all had their own ideas on what being British means to them. Come to think of it I'm not certain what it means any more. We're all supposed to be good little Europeans now.

[Romulus111VADT]

The U.S. is still young compared to European nations; although primarily Anglo-Saxon affiliated, it was already a mongrel breed sourced from many nations when it began. The older nations have known who they are for a long time, rather having patriotism inherent.

This might not be the right place but if I wasn't scared of upsetting someone we could have a very interesting discussion on this subject. I think the whole point is that Britain has lost its sense of national identity. Americans are seen as knowing exactly what it means to be American. The British people no longer know what being British actually means.

I've heard that allot about the British youth, it's a shame. I hope that it won't take another megalomaniac to come knocking on English shores to get them to realize how quickly what they take for granted can be lost. Freedom is not free and the cost of it is terribly expensive in human lives. This is proven by history and by the millions that have died for the ideal of freedom.

It's not only the youth. They had an interesting radio discussion on the subject a couple of weeks ago. Listeners taking part all had their own ideas on what being British means to them. Come to think of it I'm not certain what it means any more. We're all supposed to be good little Europeans now.

Maybe George Orwell was closer to the truth than we may have thought.....

[Hagar]

The U.S. is still young compared to European nations; although primarily Anglo-Saxon affiliated, it was already a mongrel breed sourced from many nations when it began. The older nations have known who they are for a long time, rather having patriotism inherent.

This might not be the right place but if I wasn't scared of upsetting someone we could have a very interesting discussion on this subject. I think the whole point is that Britain has lost its sense of national identity. Americans are seen as knowing exactly what it means to be American. The British people no longer know what being British actually means.

I've heard that allot about the British youth, it's a shame. I hope that it won't take another megalomaniac to come knocking on English shores to get them to realize how quickly what they take for granted can be lost. Freedom is not free and the cost of it is terribly expensive in human lives. This is proven by history and by the millions that have died for the ideal of freedom.

It's not only the youth. They had an interesting radio discussion on the subject a couple of weeks ago. Listeners taking part all had their own ideas on what being British means to them. Come to think of it I'm not certain what it means any more. We're all supposed to be good little Europeans now.

Maybe George Orwell was closer to the truth than we may have thought.....

A united Europe was actually one thing that Adolf Hitler & Winston Churchill agreed on.

[Romulus111VADT]

A united Europe was actually one thing that Adolf Hitler & Winston Churchill agreed on.

Interesting, it seems that many other cultures have tried this in the past. But back then it was called Empires. Charlemagne, Romans, Alexander, etc., only difference is that they all use the conquering methods. This probably because they knew that they would never get everyone to agree to live together under one ruler or governing body w/o force.

[Hagar]

A united Europe was actually one thing that Adolf Hitler & Winston Churchill agreed on.

Interesting, it seems that many other cultures have tried this in the past. But back then it was called Empires. Charlemagne, Romans, Alexander, etc., only difference is that they all use the conquering methods. This probably because they knew that they would never get everyone to agree to live together under one ruler or governing body w/o force.

Well, it took a bitter civil war but you lot did it.
When you come to think of it what's the difference between a United States of Europe & a United States of America?

[Romulus111VADT]

A united Europe was actually one thing that Adolf Hitler & Winston Churchill agreed on.

Interesting, it seems that many other cultures have tried this in the past. But back then it was called Empires. Charlemagne, Romans, Alexander, etc., only difference is that they all use the conquering methods. This probably because they knew that they would never get everyone to agree to live together under one ruler or governing body w/o force.

Well, it took a bitter civil war but you lot did it.
When you come to think of it what's the difference between a United States of Europe & a United States of America?

Dictators.....

We've had a wannabe and a couple of idiots running the show. But Europe is way ahead on Dictators, King's, Queen's, Dukes and Dutchess's, Caesars, etc......