Shaking the "bee's nest" of physics

[Groundbound1]

That black hole thread got me thinking...

Let's start by reviewing a few fundamental laws of physics, shall we...

1) Anything that has mass, has gravity.
No matter how large, or how small, if it takes up space, it has gravity.

2) Anything that gravity can influence, has mass.
This is the logical flipside of the coin above.

3) Force equals mass times acceleration.
Simple enough.

4) Achem's (or Ockham's)Razor,

[a1]

Very interesting. Well i have not come up with any new laws lately so nothing much to add. I love these things.

[Mobius]

Wave-particle duality I would guess.

[Groundbound1]

Enter Achem's Razor:

Could the reason light displays the properties of both waves and particles be that light IS both waves AND particles?

Think about it, the waves we see, and the effect of gravity on light's mass can be measured, is it really that far fetched?

Now if that's true, we're still left with the lack of influence of light mass on the world around us, huh........


I'll say more later, but until then think about the SPEED of light (186,000 MPS) and Einstein's explanation about what happens at that speed.....

It's also time for a few more rules.

5) Speed is a calulation of a measured distance traveled in a measured amount of time.

6) Time dilation, see link below
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

7)E=mc2?
Not so sure about this one.

General and Special relativity
same link as number 6.

Just in case I'm onto something with this theory(unlikely as it may be) , remember, you heard it hear first.

[beaky]

Photons are sort of in a class of their own... despite the fact that they can exert force (as with a heliotrope), and can be influenced by gravity ("gravity lens" effect), they have no mass (as we understand it).


http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resourc ... onmass.htm


But assuming they do have mass , consider the total mass of a bunch of photons streaming out of a light bulb... despite their velocity, the kinetic energy involved is like nothing compared to, say, hurricane-force wind entering the same house through an open door. A massive electron discharge would do more damage (although mostly due to disturbing the volume of air inside the house).

This is why a solar sail needs to be much, much larger in proportion to the payload it's moving than a sail on a boat, even though in space there is no resistance of air and water. In fact, a solar sail really wouldn't work in any environment other than space-grade vacuum, as far as I know... and even in space, it would take a looooong time for the sail to accelerate its payload anywhere near the speed of light.

[WebbPA]

Alternating current.

[H]

Thanks, Groundbound1, I flipped the blasted switch...

Now I'm drenched by the remaining rains of Hanna...

Boom! Slosh! ...Thanks again!

Alternating current.

May explain some things about Washington, DC...

8-)

[expat]

Gravity is a myth..............the earths sucks!!

Matt

[Brett_Henderson]

Quantum physics is where religion meets science... and black holes are the alter

[Hagar]

All this makes my head hurt. Scientific law is a Human concept created by Man in order to explain natural phenomena in terms that he can understand. If a new phenomenon or deviation from the norm is observed then that requires modification of an existing law to fit in with the generally accepted theory. If that cannot be done then the existing law is flawed which makes anything based on it invalid. Nature is unaware of this concept & is not forced to follow any laws.

[H]

...Nature is unaware of this concept & is not forced to follow any laws. :P

At the most inappropriate of times... when you've got to go, you've got to go >>>.

8-)

[Groundbound1]

Photons are sort of in a class of their own... despite the fact that they can exert force (as with a heliotrope), and can be influenced by gravity ("gravity lens" effect), they have no mass (as we understand it).


http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resourc ... onmass.htm


But assuming they do have mass , consider the total mass of a bunch of photons streaming out of a light bulb... despite their velocity, the kinetic energy involved is like nothing compared to, say, hurricane-force wind entering the same house through an open door. A massive electron discharge would do more damage (although mostly due to disturbing the volume of air inside the house).

This is why a solar sail needs to be much, much larger in proportion to the payload it's moving than a sail on a boat, even though in space there is no resistance of air and water. In fact, a solar sail really wouldn't work in any environment other than space-grade vacuum, as far as I know... and even in space, it would take a looooong time for the sail to accelerate its payload anywhere near the speed of light.

From the article above:

"A particle like a photon is never at rest and always moves at the speed of light; thus it is massless," says Dr. Michael S. Turner, chair of the Department of Astrophysics at the University of Chicago."


This is were I think the mistake was made. According to Einstein, two things happen as an object nears light speed. One is the time dilation effect, where as the passage of time slows down for that object, relative to the rest of the 3D universe, and two, as that object approaches the speed of light, it becomes infinitely massive, which is why it's believed nothing can travel faster than 186,000mps.

Time and space are linked. It stands to reason, that if you're working with a calculation, and you see that one of those factors is being reduced, the other must be proportionately reduced as well. So I propose that the object that's nearing light speed isn't increasing in mass, but instead, 3D space around that object is collapsing. Eliminate time, eliminate space.

A photon COULD then have mass (which is why gravity pulls light) it simply isn't in our 3D universe. Then where is it?

It's skirting just outside the space/time continuum. Just as a super-sonic aircraft produces a shockwave, so too do photons when they pass the "light barrier". The resulting "shockwave" would be the light waves we see.

Now, if this is true, then it's anyones guess WHERE those photons actually are, but where ever that "place" is, gravity exerts it's influence there as well, which would make a very real place indeed. Could this be the fourth dimension everyone speaks of?

Not only that, but light WOULD be made up of two parts, both particles AND waves. The waves that we see in 3D space, and the particle "somewhere" else. The particle half of light would need be traveling FASTER than 186,000mps in order to stay outside the 3D universe. (Which, needless to say, would mean that "thing's" CAN excede 186,000mps)

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't these ideas make more sense, then having all those "special" rules, and exceptions to those rules, to explain the behavior of certain things in our universe?

Not to mention, the potential amount of energy that could be produced, if one were able to slow those photons down, just enough to bring them into 3D space.

[Alejandro Rhodes]

That black hole thread got me thinking...

Let's start by reviewing a few fundamental laws of physics, shall we...

1) Anything that has mass, has gravity.
No matter how large, or how small, if it takes up space, it has gravity.

2) Anything that gravity can influence, has mass.
This is the logical flipside of the coin above.

3) Force equals mass times acceleration.
Simple enough.

4) Achem's (or Ockham's)Razor,  All things being equal, the most simple explanation is probably the correct explanation.
Not quite a physical law, but pertinent to the discussion.

Now, why is it that your house doesn't explode when you turn on the lights in your living room?

Gravity pulls light, ergo, light has mass, and that mass is travelling at 186,000 miles per second......but no K-boom....why not? Any amount of mass, regardless of how little, travelling that fast SHOULD obliterate anything it comes in contact with, shouldn't it? :-?


I've always said, if you can find something that can defy the laws of physics, it's time to find new laws!


I might have an new explanation, but I'd like to hear your's first.
Thoughts?

I don't understand you question  due my english limitations ,But remember You can't apply Isaac newton's laws in quantum universe Proton ,neutrons, neutrinos are NOT rule by gravitation or electromagnetism , and some of the quamtum phisics still remains in mistery.

Gravity is more a property of the bending the Time-Space

[Groundbound1]

[quote][quote]That black hole thread got me thinking...

Let's start by reviewing a few fundamental laws of physics, shall we...

1) Anything that has mass, has gravity.
No matter how large, or how small, if it takes up space, it has gravity.

2) Anything that gravity can influence, has mass.
This is the logical flipside of the coin above.

3) Force equals mass times acceleration.
Simple enough.

4) Achem's (or Ockham's)Razor,

[Alejandro Rhodes]

Hey! I didn't invent this..

There a whole different universe in the world of the quantum physics, a world of two simultaneous realities , a wave, a particle at the same time..a world that at some levels are ruled by two forces only ,which interact in the atom weak and strong forces ..this is not and easy subject my friend  ;)

I would need to learn english and then become a scientist ,but even though  there are things that still no buddy has and answer, just theories, Like Multi universes ,time travel , multi dimensions  and all that crap .

Now, why is it that your house doesn't explode when you turn on the lights in your living room?

photons doesn't have mass, a photon is created when one of the tungstens electrons ,Jumps from one of it orbit to other ,due to the high speed of this metal (Condition Hot)

all you see Illuminated inside your house its just the reflection of this electromagnetic Radiation that can't be absorbed to become heat, Color are the part which it can't be absorbed as Hot and they go to you eyes as the green color of a plant ,the red of an apple etc..

LIGHT is just a small portion of the electromagnetic radiation ,radio signal ,microwaves ,ray X are the same phenomena with different wave size...But Im sure you already knew this  ;)