Flight School or College?

If it doesn't fit .. It fits here .. - -

Flight School or College?

Postby DONTREADMYUSERNAME » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:17 am

Hey guys,
I wish to become a pilot in training after these last 2 years of High School and eventually make it to an airline. I live in the Washington D.C. area and have already looked into many different Flight Schools in my area, but what I want to know is you guys' (hopefully real world pilots) opinon on whether I should stick to flight schools and two year programs or go out for Colleges like Embry Riddle? What do you think? I plan to atleast get a solo before graduation in a flight school. Any response would be helpfull thanks!
We live in an age when pizza gets to your home before the police.
-- Jeff Marder

Stupid Sox Fans
Image

Image
DONTREADMYUSERNAME
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:00 pm

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby BFMF » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:07 pm

Have you looked into getting a degree in aviation?
BFMF
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 16266
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:06 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby dcunning30 » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:37 pm

I dunno, if you don't mind eating ramen noodles, remaining poor for a long time, and be willing to give your left kidney for more hours, then I suppose flight school.  Have you considered the military?  Go for flying transports.  Let the government pay for your hours.
TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS TASK FORCE 34 RR THE WORLD WONDERS
User avatar
dcunning30
Major
Major
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: The Land of Nod

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby BFMF » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:02 pm

[quote]I dunno, if you don't mind eating ramen noodles, remaining poor for a long time, and be willing to give your left kidney for more hours, then I suppose flight school.
BFMF
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 16266
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:06 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby Fozzer » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:14 pm

Judging by the Avatar message, and the VERY LARGE SIGNATURE LETTERS.....

I would suggest your best bet is to learn how to hit seven bells out a ball with a wooden stick....>>>>
...and get paid loadsamoney for doing it..>>>>

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=nyy

Paul.... ;)...!
Win 8.1 64-bit. DX11. Advent Tower. Intel i7-3770 3.9 GHz 8-core. 8 GB System RAM. AMD Radeon HD 7700 1GB RAM. DVD ROM. 2 Terra Byte SATA Hard Drive. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Saitek Cyborg X Fly-5 Joystick. ...and a Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower.
User avatar
Fozzer
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 27361
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:11 pm
Location: Hereford. England. EGBS.

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby Hagar » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:21 pm

Hey guys,
I wish to become a pilot in training after these last 2 years of High School and eventually make it to an airline.

Maybe not such a good move. :-/ You might like to read this thread first. Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me
Image

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group
My Google Photos albums
My Flickr albums
User avatar
Hagar
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 30864
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:15 am
Location: Costa Geriatrica

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby DONTREADMYUSERNAME » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:25 pm

Esselback thats what i meant by going to college, getting a degree. I'm just not sure whether to go or stick to flight schools. the military has crossed my mind but, my parents would probably kill me before i get to Basic Training. My moms not happy at all about me wanting to fly but if i suggested the military i'd probably get thrown out of my house. And it just so happens i love Ramen noodles....

and those things posted in that link you gave me Hagar um i dont think you would qualify for food stamps if you make $129,250 a year...

Quotes from the US department of Labor website...

Earnings of airline pilots are among the highest in the Nation, and depend on factors such as the type, size, and maximum speed of the plane and the number of hours and miles flown. For example, pilots who fly jet aircraft usually earn higher salaries than do pilots who fly turboprops. Airline pilots and flight engineers may earn extra pay for night and international flights. In May 2004, median annual earnings of airline pilots, copilots, and flight engineers were $129,250.


[quote]Airline pilots usually are eligible for life and health insurance plans. They also receive retirement benefits and, if they fail the FAA physical examination at some point in their careers, they get disability payments. In addition, pilots receive an expense allowance, or
We live in an age when pizza gets to your home before the police.
-- Jeff Marder

Stupid Sox Fans
Image

Image
DONTREADMYUSERNAME
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:00 pm

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby Hagar » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:28 pm

and those things posted in that link you gave me Hagar um i dont think you would qualify for food stamps if you make $129,250 a year...

Quotes from the US department of Labor website...

Earnings of airline pilots are among the highest in the Nation, and depend on factors such as the type, size, and maximum speed of the plane and the number of hours and miles flown. For example, pilots who fly jet aircraft usually earn higher salaries than do pilots who fly turboprops. Airline pilots and flight engineers may earn extra pay for night and international flights. In May 2004, median annual earnings of airline pilots, copilots, and flight engineers were $129,250.


[quote]Airline pilots usually are eligible for life and health insurance plans. They also receive retirement benefits and, if they fail the FAA physical examination at some point in their careers, they get disability payments. In addition, pilots receive an expense allowance, or
Last edited by Hagar on Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Founder & Sole Member - Grumpy's Over the Hill Club for Veteran Virtual Aviators
Member of the Fox Four Group
My Google Photos albums
My Flickr albums
User avatar
Hagar
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 30864
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:15 am
Location: Costa Geriatrica

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby jrpilot » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:06 pm

First off get a 4 year degree.  Regional pilots make AROUND $20000 per year.  This varies significantly.  The 6 digit salary is far many years down the road, and to get there it is very, very unlikely you will without a four year degree.  Also you may want to get a degree outside of aviation...why?  Well perhaps you may get sick of aviation all together, but a far better reason is that aviation rides a "wave"  Sometimes this wave is high (good) and sometimes it is low (bad).  Aviation has NO guarantees.  When you go to school, it truely doesn't matter where you go, no school is better than the other as far getting you the job.  I'm not trying to scare you away, rather inform you.  To be honest you may want to look around at schools, even local schools that may have an aviation program that may help you obtain your CFI (Flight instructor) usually a two yr degree, then continue on for a four yr degree.  Being a CFI is the most common way pilots make it to the regional airlines, although there are others.
jrpilot
Major
Major
 
Posts: 2178
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:04 pm

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby RitterKreuz » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:34 am

The Yo Ho Yo Ho thread is accurate as far as pay goes, with a degree you will do well advancing to a major airline where the pay is tops.

the problem is when a guy has a wife and kids to support and student loans to pay still has to stick it out with a regional airline for 10 years before he is qualified for a major airline the pay will really stink. (my only REAL complaint about the job, but unlike some, for the most part i knew what i was getting myself into)

But it is about the most fun a job can be.

understand what your getting yourself into, no matter how much you like flying it WILL become a job and there WILL be days when you would much rather be sitting on the pier with a fishing pole and a cold beer even if you dont catch anything! do the research.

Several colleges offer an aviation degree plan, but seriously... what in the hell does an aviation degree do for you except cost you out the rear? do the aviation thing through the college but major or at least minor in something else. Business Management, accounting, something - anything that will allow you to seek another career should you get burned out, fired, lose you medical, have your license pulled, fail a check ride with the company or whatever the case may be you have a fall back.

even though some of the guys that quit do love the job, they unfortunately have to come do the job for a year or two before they realize what they really think about it and that it wont support a good lifestyle and make that decision to resign and seek greener pastures.

If i had it all to do over again here is what i would have done differently...

1. Pick an aviation school and dedicate myself to finishing with that one school. I got a rating here, a license there etc before i made the choice to do this professionally, bouncing from school to school or only acquiring a license once in a while is no way to do the training in a timely manner.

2. Pick a school with a good, solid, reliable bridge program with multiple airlines. If a few companies guarantee your school's graduates at least an interview regardless of hours flown this is a good thing. the school i went to advertised a bridge program, but if i had investigated more deeply i would have found that it was not a very solid bridge program.

3. Since seniority with a company determines, Pay, vacation, and quality of life in general... seniority is vital, you MUST get on someones seniority list as soon as humanly possible. If you have to take summer school courses to finish school faster, by all means do it!! it could be the difference between being a captain, or having one of the classmates that graduated a year AFTER you being YOUR captain.

4. Avoid the ladies. This was a task i performed quite poorly with  :'( , no offense to the women, but they will cost you money, they will weaken your resolve to commit to your school related obligations, you eventually marry them, and you eventually father children with them... the mud you are walking through to get to your goal gets deeper and deeper the more evolved with a woman you become!!!!! there will be SO much more time for women, and a little more money for women when you finish school. remember "if it flies, floats or fu*ks its going to cost you an arm and a leg."

hope this post helps you out in your quest to secure a seat in the flight deck, hope to see you there some day real soon.
RitterKreuz
Major
Major
 
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:26 am
Location: Texas

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby RitterKreuz » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:22 pm

another thing i should ad to my above reply: (Make sure you read it!)


I dont care if you have a masters degree in advanced aeronautical theory - everything is seniority based. that said, the guy 100 numbers above you on the seniority list who has an associates degree in theatrical arts will be making more money than you, he will be getting the days off you wish you had, when vacation is available he will get it first he will get the best schedule, the longest layovers, everything you wish you got he has.

What you chose to major in means absolutely nothing to the hiring department at an airline.

They want to see the required licenses, ratings and flight time - period.

also - the fact that the U.S. department of labor statistics indicate that airline pilots as a group make over 100,000 dollars a year is an absolute farce. Yes - there are airline pilots who make in excess of 100,000 dollars a year, they are all over 50 years old, have more than 20 years seniority at their company and have worked flying jobs for next to nothing in order to get there.

These flight schools meet their quotas and make their money by advertising $100,000 airline pilot salaries to young 16 - 21 year old men. These young men like flying and they like money, they see dollar signs and they sign up.

simple truth is that every airline job has minimums and you have to meet those minimums.

If you want to make $100,000 annually you will need to be a captain for some place like American Airlines or Continental.

to make captain at American/continental you will have to have first worked your way up their seniority list as a first officer for several years.

to get a job there as a first officer two conditions have to be met

condition 1. They have to be hiring new hires (which some majors have not hired anyone since mid 2001)

condition 2. you have to have a minimum of 1500 hours total time, 1,000 hours of which must be pilot in command time of a multi-engine turbine powered airplane.

in order to get the 1,000 hours of pilot in command time in a multi engine turbine you will have to make captain at a place like American Eagle, or Continental Express.

in order to get the captain seat at American eagle or continental express you will have to have first worked your way up their seniority list as a first officer for several years.

to get a job as a first officer at a regional you will have to have a minimum of 1,000 hours total time, 200 or more hours pilot in command time in a multi engine airplane.

Since you will probably graduate flight school with all your required ratings BUT LESS THAN 300 hours total flight time... in order to get the 1,000 hours total time and 200 or more multi you will have to either

graduate at the top 10% of your class in a bridge program and hope the guaranteed interview goes well

or

be a flight instructor for about 700 bucks a month in a 172 for a couple of years and hope that an opening for a multi engine instructor opens up at the school where you work

or

haul checks in cessna 210 for about 1,000 bucks a month for a couple of years until the company moves you into the Cessna 421 so you can build multi time and move on to the regionals

or

carry cargo in a Cherokee six for about 1,000 bucks a month for a couple of years in hopes that the company will move you into their piper seneca soon so you can build multi time and move on to the regionals.

after doing all of that it will have taken you nearly 80 - 90% of your career to get to the 100,000 dollar a year mark.

if you start NOW right after graduation you will probably make that pay scale by the time you're first kid is getting ready to graduate high school.

it is a long hard road - dont let USA today, or the US dept of labor, or some flight school recruiter guide you otherwise - if you want it bad enough it will all work out but only because you busted your arse for it


you can find out what any airline pilot makes by looking here >> http://www.willflyforfood.cc/airlinepilotpay/

want to know how much you would make on the first year... go to the year one pay scals and multiply that dollar amount by about 72-75 hours BINGO there is your monthly check total.

benefits are good dental vision medical etc etc all the things you would expect, you get a 401K and all that stuff, but dont count on any kind of decent retirement... your company will probably negotiate with a bankruptcy court to screw you and thousands of other employees out of your pensions  anyway.
Last edited by RitterKreuz on Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RitterKreuz
Major
Major
 
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:26 am
Location: Texas

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby DONTREADMYUSERNAME » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:05 pm

thanks alot for the great advice RitterKruez, its great advice and will definetely help me. The Department of labor stats was just something i had read and wanted to clarify. i be there are some extreme salaries that skew the numbers. So no 4 year college is better than the other? Not even by a tiny bit? One final question......


Is it worth it?
Last edited by DONTREADMYUSERNAME on Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We live in an age when pizza gets to your home before the police.
-- Jeff Marder

Stupid Sox Fans
Image

Image
DONTREADMYUSERNAME
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:00 pm

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby RitterKreuz » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:59 pm

pretty much the only difference between aviation universities is the cost.

without regard to the school you choose, upon graduation you're going to leave campus with...

Private Pilot License for airplane single engine
Commercial pilots license for airplane single and multi engine aircraft
Instrument rating
Flight Instructor certificate
Instrument Flight Instructor certificate
Maybe Multi Engine Instructor certificate

Where you go to school only changes how much you pay.

Is it worth it?

thats up to the individual.

You will hear me wine and complain about it once in a while, but thats usually when its my last day off before i go back and im suffering from a screaming case of the "i dont wannas".
but it only takes one day of flying with a good crew through some beautiful sights to get me back into the mood.

Just research what your getting yourself into. you will be underpaid and unimportant for many years before you start making big money. Your going to spend a couple of years as an instructor, then maybe get into hauling checks or instructing in multi engine aircraft to build time, then your going to get into regional airline flying as an F.O. then you will upgrade to captain and get enough hours PIC turbine time to qualify for the majors like FedEx or American or Continental as an F.O. again for several years. then you will get a captain seat where you will hopefully remain until retirement. it takes 30 seconds to read that paragraph which describes a 25 to 30 year process.

all in all it will literally take you a fair amount of your lifetime to get to the huge salary, and until then you will be working for peanuts and getting very creative when it comes to saving money.

the only time a person can truly answer "was it worth it?" will be when they are in the captain seat on the last month, on the last day, on the go home leg of their retirement flight. unfortunately it takes a few decades to be able to answer that question.
RitterKreuz
Major
Major
 
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 3:26 am
Location: Texas

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby FLYING_TRUCKER » Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:34 pm

the only time a person can truly answer "was it worth it?" will be when they are in the captain seat on the last month, on the last day, on the go home leg of their retirement flight. unfortunately it takes a few decades to be able to answer that question.  

You have pretty much hit the nail on the head with your reply RitterKruez.   :)

I won't add much more as I hung up my flying spurs over a decade ago, my pension cheque is more than what most First Officers will ever see and I earned every penny of it.  ;)

What I will say is many a good company and not just an airline, has come and gone, some successful while others complete flops.  You as an employee will be enticed, lured and tempted during your career to jump ship or make a change.

The old adage (A condensed but memorable saying embodying some important fact of experience that is taken as true by many people) stands true.
"A Change Is As Good As A Rest"

However.  :)

"The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.  It seldom is."  This is also true.

Whatever Flight School or College you decide on, whatever career you choose, do some research, talk to folks in the profession, talk to your best friend, your family and spouse and then give yourself time to analyse that information.  Time and information are your tools, only you can make the decision.   :)

Good Luck!

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
FLYING_TRUCKER
 

Re: Flight School or College?

Postby DONTREADMYUSERNAME » Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:59 pm

thanks alot guys!
We live in an age when pizza gets to your home before the police.
-- Jeff Marder

Stupid Sox Fans
Image

Image
DONTREADMYUSERNAME
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:00 pm


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 376 guests