Climate Change/Global Warming

[DaveSims]

It is simple human arrogrance to assume that we can have a major impact on a planet that has been around for millions of years without our intervention.  I am part of the crowd that believes it is a cycle.  Everything in nature is cycles, some of which take thousands or millions of years between cycles.  Just like last year and the atlantic hurricane season.  Everybody saw it as the end of the world, the worst in history.  But how far back does history go?  We have no idea what the hurricanes were like more than 100 years ago.  

The US government has gotten so wrapped up in this its stupid.  Around here we have ethanol mixed in the gas because its supposedly better.  But the facts are that the creation of ethanol creates more pollution that it saves.  Yet the US government is pressing everyone to use it in order to "stay green".  They even go as far as subsidizing it in order for it to be cheaper than normal gas.

And as for getting rid of my 4x4, keep dreaming.  Without it, I'm going nowhere in winter.  

Ok, rant done.  The last bit of advice, never, ever listen to what the media and their "experts" say.  The media's agenda is to startle and scare people, to get a reaction and ratings.  They are no longer a simple reliable news source.

[expat]

thing is mate

in the 70's we were going to run out by 1990 then it was 2000 and now its been bumped once more. ignore those eejits and thier estimations.  
also if all the politicians are so botherd about global warming maybe they could get some more eco friendly modes of transport because all the brits politics drives around in jags whihc guzzle fuel, blair now has a private jet to buzz him around and bush has air force 1 which is just a co2 emitting machine.

ignore politicians and enojy your life

john

Great to know that oil will never run out.

Matt

PS President Blair does not have a private jet, unfortunately, Two Jags Prescott does have two Jags, but he comes from the school of politics that says, "Do as I say not what I do", every political system has them.

[Woodlouse2002]

Great to know that oil will never run out.

Matt

Oil will run out. But current estimates are on the reserves that we are actually tapping now. There is a lot more oil out there at the moment that isn't worth extracting yet. Oneday when the price is right we'll extract it.

As I said, it will run out oneday, but that oneday will be long after predicted.

[beefhole]

Guys, I've already explained why it's more complicated than what commoner posted (that this is just a natural cycle, which is only partly true).  Copied and pasted from my previous post-

A little research into why the scientists are sqwuaking about this might reveal why it's not the normal climate shift.  

We can know the global temperature thousands of years in the past by drilling in the antarctic ice-each ice layer is like rings on a tree, containing a wealth of information.  We've mapped the last ice age (or two), and the reason this climate shift is raising so much alarm is because it's happening much, much, much more rapidly than did the warming before.  Yes, the planet does indeed go through these cycles, but not as quick as has been measured in the last 50 or so years, when the rate of global temperature change has absolutely skyrocketed in comparison to the previous ice ages-this is normally a slow process.  However, if the current rate of warming continues-

In the next 50 years, the temp will rise 1-4.5 degrees F
In the next 100 years, the temp will rise up to 10 degrees F (this is catastrophic)

Will it rise that much? We have no way of knowing.  What we know for sure is that its happening much faster, and this is the key peice of evidence for the argument that claims humans are greatly contributing.

And the argument that we are too insignificant to impact the environment simply just doesn't hold up.

a)our atmosphere is incredibly thin.  You can see this by looking at close-up pictures of the earth from space, the atmosphere is just a thin blue band.  It is also relatively fragile.

b) What the argument fails to take into account is that humans are NEW.  So why CAN'T we be causing this?  We have no precedent!  It was just animal and plantlife before us, and before that not much else.  The earth has never experienced anything like this ('this' referring to the astronomical amount of fossil fuels we're pumping into the atmosphere) before, so how can you claim it definitely isn't affecting her? (of course, the flipside is 'well how can you say it IS')

I'm not trying to take sides here, I'm trying to show the pitfalls of arguments that become obvious if just a little research and noodling is done.  We don't know which side is correct, that's what we're working to find out.  And once again, I agree with everyone that the extremists need to be avoided at all costs.

Unfortunately I leave for Wisconsin (PSU @ Wisc on Sat) in an hour and a half, so don't think that by me not replying I'm conceding anything!

[Mobius]

Unfortunately I leave for Wisconsin (PSU @ Wisc on Sat) in an hour and a half

Unfortunately!?  What's wrong with Wisconsin?

Hey, if you're going to the football game, you'll be right down the street from me!  You'd better not take my parking spot...

[Brett_Henderson]

LOL

[beefhole]

Unfortunately!?  What's wrong with Wisconsin?

Hey, if you're going to the football game, you'll be right down the street from me!  You'd better not take my parking spot...

It's right next to Canada, that's what! (jk Canadians )

Nothing at all, my dad is from Madison/Milwaukee (at different times), and went to Wisconsin for his undergrad.  I'm torn as to who to root for though  :-[

The troposhpere (part of the atmosphere that we're concerned about) is on average, nine miles "thick". Now.. I'll agree that as a percentage of the Earth's size, that can be considered thin..BUT, that very size means that there on nine miles of troposphere over every, single square inch of a VERY large orb.

And I personally put more emphasis on the "small perecentage" part.  However, as you said, it is totally subjective.  The way I see it, it's very thin.

I mean.. it's survived us.. And along with us is the volcanic activity that dwarfs our influence.. And before "we" tamed things.. a lighting induced forest fire would release fixed carbon on a continental scale, that again dwarfs our influence..  

It's survived us thusfar.  We're not quite extinct yet .  As for the other two, I haven't heard anything along those lines, I'll have to look it up.  Either way, volcanoes and forest fires don't rage for centuries.  Polution does, and it increases every year.  Good point though, I'll have to look into it.

To the Earth.. humans are barely more than slight case of athletes foot. We are noticed.. no doubt that we're here and have been and will be.. for a long time..  But we'll end up coming and going as little more than a footnote (pun intended) in the Earth's history..

Yup.  This however does not mean we won't leave a mark on the current cycle-the earth will, of course, eventually repair itself of anything we may have done to it, but it will do it on its own time and the human race may whither and die in the meantime (not saying I don't think it will, I'm just saying I think we could have an effect on the momentary state of the climate).

[Chris_F]

To nobody in particular, maybe even nobody on this forum:

I'm amazed at the hypocracy.

[dcunning30]

In light of Chris_F's post, this is submitted for your amusement!

http://www.tmz.com/2006/10/18/celebs-wh ... guzzle-gas

[bbstackerf]

I switched over to the florecent(sp) bulbs in my house. Pretty economical as well as good for the environment. I have to admit that the ecology was last issue though - fewer times to replace worn out bulbs.

I'm not a very 'green' minded person though I do believe it's our doing that's causing the eco disasters. (Discovery and Times channels say so.)

Someone mentioned that human are slow to voluntary change. I also believe that humans (and cocroaches) are the greatest adapters on the planet. What ever happens, we'll adapt. SPF 20000 on the beaches, special tint in our cars. Look at it this way, micro wave cooking will be cheap. You won't need an expensive machine, just a hole in your kitchen wall.

Popcorn, anyone?

Keni

[DaveSims]

Even if we are accelerating global warming slightly, it would happen naturally anyway.  So it happened today instead of tomorrow, or next week.  The earth will always be changing, and we will adapt or go extinct, just like every other species that has called this ball of rock home for the last several million years.  But I for one am not losing any sleep over it.

[Chris_F]

Look at it this way, micro wave cooking will be cheap. You won't need an expensive machine, just a hole in your kitchen wall.

Popcorn, anyone?

Keni

Sadly that would mean we could only eat fresh popcord during daylight hours.  What is one to do for family movie night?  Perhaps we need some big space based mirror system to allow popcorn making on the night side of the earth as well.

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]
Sadly that would mean we could only eat fresh popcord during daylight hours.

[Politically Incorrect]

I switched over to the florecent(sp) bulbs in my house. Pretty economical as well as good for the environment.

They may be economical, but good for the environment?

what do you think is in those glass tubes?

BTW don't open one up just to find out

[bbstackerf]

There supposed to be good in the sense that they use less electricity.  Supposedly if every one in the United States replaced at least 1 bulb with these new florescent ones it would be like saving 1 million pounds of pullutants from entering the air.  Explained to me this way. The amount of electricity saved would equal 1 million pounds of pollution generated by burning fossil fuels.

But like I said, I replaced them because they're supposed to last as long as 10 regular bulbs making them economical in the long run.

Keni