Climate Change/Global Warming

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Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby concordski » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:20 pm

Well the evidence says yes, the US Government and Russia say no, so whats all climate change about? I will explain.

The Greenhouse Effect.

Fossil fuels are what we burn to generate electricity, manufacture goods and power our cars. They are Coal, Oil and Natural Gas. We use them to make Plastic, Petroleum Products, Kerosene, Synthetics, Polycarbonates etc. Basically they are needed in clothes, electronic equipment, cars, planes, buildings and thousands of other goods. They drive our modern world. So what is all the fuss about? The fossil fuels are so called because they are formed by the decay of fossils millions of years ago, under the sea with shellfish and moluscs to form OIL and GAS, and on land with trees and plants to form COAL. Back then, there was a lot of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. This is a nasty gas, which consists of a carbon and two oxygen atoms. It conducts heat very well, but more on that later. As part of the CARBON CYCLE, plants and trees absorb Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere when they grow, and release it when they die, this is why COAL is so rich in carbon, the trees got it from the air millions of years ago, and became fossilized and under intense heat and pressure formed COAL. A Similar thing happened with OIL, the sea naturally absorbs Carbon Dioxide when it is in abundance, and releases it when it is in short supply, which is why the sea is slightly acidic. And organisms in the sea absorbed some of the Carbon Dioxide millions of years ago, to create their shells etc. and that is why OIL is formed. So why was there so much Carbon Dioxide (CO2) in the atmosphere then? Simple - the atmosphere was less evolved. The atmoshpere has had a roughly constant level of Oxygen Nitrogen and Carbon Dioxide in it for the past 30,000 years, but before that Carbon Dioxide was one of the principle gasses, and creatures had evolved to live off it. But Plants produce oxygen when they take it in (photosynthesise) so the balance was reduced, animals do the oppisite, so there is a BALANCE between the two. The Earths atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, O.2% Argon, and 0.04% Carbon Dioxide.

Why is Carbon Dioxide so bad?
Carbon Dioxide is essential for our life as humans (plants need it), but like most things, abundance is not good. It insulates heat very well, and high up in the atmosphere we are being covered in a blanket of this gas which is trapping the suns heat, warming up the globe. As the Carbon Dioxide levels increase, so does the average tempreture on earth. This is called the GREENHOUSE EFFECT.

What will happen if Carbon Dioxide Levels increase?
A Catostrophe. A couple of degrees Fahrenheit (only a degree or two Celsius) increase in the Earths Tempreture doesn't sound like much, but we are on the edge of melting and freezing of the ice caps every year, so it means a lot. As the ice caps melt, so do the sea levels increase. Many major cities in the world could be swamped and need to be abandoned - London, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, New York, San Francisco, New Orleans Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai, Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Durban, Mombassa, Sydney - you get the picture. There is also a lot of Carbon Dioxide gas "locked up" in this ice from when it froze thousands of years ago, so Carbon Dioxide levels could increase even more, and tempretures and the sea levels could rise further. This is the tipping point. If the WEST GREENLAND ICE SHEET melts, this could be one tipping point, there are several others. We need to act fast. The higer tempretures mean crops could fail, millions could go hungry, the worlds population is already high enough as it is, and the USA cannot feed its 300 million people alone. Forests accross the world - which absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere could burn, there is already evidence that the higher tempretures are harming the Amazon Rainforest in South America, and this could have devistating effects. Higer Carbon Dioxide levels mean that the sea has to absorb more Carbon Dioxide and becomes saturated, the sea will get more and more acidic (Carbon Dioxide + Water - Carbonic Acid) so the Coral Reefs of the world will suffer terribly and millions of corals wil become bleached. Animals will become extinct. Weather - As sea tempretures rise, storms and hurricanes will become more frequent and more devistating. Some parts of the world will get warmer, some colder as the gulf stream moves further south and parts of central asia will freeze more often and more devistatingly. We need to act fast.

What can I do?
You, the individual need to act, using less energy will save you lots of money and will be better for the environment. It will even help your country's economy!

1. If you own a car which does less that 30 miles per gallon, then sell it. Face it. You don't need a massive 4x4, they block the road, damage it and pump out noxious fumes which contribute massively to global warming. A Fuel efficient car will save you so much money, not only in fuel but also in tax, as many countries are adjusting their tax policies to make it more expensive for 4x4 owners. Sell it now while its worth something, otherwise it'll cost you.
2. Energy Efficient Light Bulbs. Normal Tungsten fillament light bulbs give off 90% heat and only 10% light. Thats enormously inefficient. LEDs are the future. They cost a large amount at first, but are 10 times more efficient and butn for a lot longer. LED bulbs typicaly cost $10 each, but burn for around 50,000 hours compared to less than 500 for a regular light bulb.
Go to http://www.efficientlight.co.uk for more info.
3. Public Transport. Be Brave! Give public transport a go, or share a car to work. Take a bicycle! Free and get fit! Trains and busses are so much better for the environment. If you own a people carrier give all your collegues a lift to work, and work out a schedule so you each even it out. It wil save you a lot of money.
4. Switch off appliances. In the western world we are attrocious at this. We could save so much money and energy by switching off lights and computers, and turning items off, not putting them on stanby. If you own a Windows PC, put it in Hibernate mode, because it uses 0 watts of energy. If your TV or DVD machine is on stanby, it is still using a lot of energy, so switch it off at the mains.
5. Carbon Offset. This means that you pay for the damage you do, and the money you pay goes towards renewable technologies such as wind and solar and tidal power, and towards planting trees etc. It is one of the best ways to get involved, and they do all the work for you. The Carbon Trust and BP operate good schemes, but beware as some are cons. Shop around. If you go on holiday, pay $30 to offset the carbon emisions you make.
6. Recycle. This saves us digging landfils, which constantly give off carbon gas. Recycling is green and saves your local council or state government money so they can spend it on other things. Metals, plastics, paper, all these things can be recycled. Enquire at your local government office.
7. Install Solar Panels on your house. Sounds bizarre but if you live somewhere sunny like the west coast or the desert area then you can save enormous amounts of money and even sell money to the power companies! You can also heat your house with a hot water system. There is a large initial cost, but a short payback time so you can be reaping the rewards soon.
8. Buy energy efficient goods. Air conditioners are bad. They are highly desirable but use enormous amounts of energy and are very inefficient. Some people air condition their gardens. Insane! Build your house with thick walls! I live in an old house which has walls 3 feet or more thick. They keep the house remarkably cool in summer and warm in winter! Problem solved! AIR CONDITIONERS ARE BAD. So are some fridges and appliances, try to get one with an A energy efficieny rating. Remember they may cost more, but will save you money in the long run.
9. House Insulation. I cannot stress enough how important this is. Putting in cavity wall insulation, insulating the loft, doors etc. and having double glazing save you so much money and energy. We loose huge amounts of energy through our houses, especially if they're old. Saving energy this way is incredibly easy and effective. Enquire with your builder about the benefits.
10. Water Usage. You may think that we have an abundant source of water (the sea) and your right but extracting it is one of the most inefficient things on earth! Desalination is amazing but uses incredible amounts of energy. Thats why we need to conserve water by having rain water collectors, water butts, water meters etc. installed. You can save money by using less water and having a water meter installed. Our freshwater supplies are running out and using the sea is not good.

There are a thousand and one ways to save energy, CONVERT OTHERS! SAVE ENERGY AT HOME, AT WORK, IN THE CAR (by not using it!).


A last note, I now have a saying that I hope will stick with you.

We need not fear communism, terrorism, nor nuclear war. The most dangerous thing in the world today is CLIMATE CHANGE and ignorance of it. Nature is more powerful than any politician, but as individuals we can combat this evil which we have caused ourselves.

In 1885 there were 296 Parts of Carbon Dioxide per Million in the atmosphere.
In 2005 there were 363.
By 2050 there will be over 500 and global tempretures will rise by more than 2 degrees celsius.


I have written this myself, but would like it to be spread, so go forth and spread the word! Cut and Paste this onto any message board you may find, the more people who know about this the better, and the more can do something about it. This way we can put pressure on our governments to act.

Concordski
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby beefhole » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:26 pm

Weren't we just over this?

There is no dissent over whether or not it is happening, the argument is over whether or not humans are expediting the process.

Also, individuals will never, ever, never act voluntarily.  EVER.  At best, they won't act until it's too late.  Either the governments fix this or we fry.  That simple.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby KDSM » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:40 pm

Wasnt too long ago that all the scientists were warning us about global cooling I was a tweener then and I remember it well.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby Mushroom_Farmer » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:47 pm

Wasnt too long ago that all the scientists were warning us about global cooling I was a tweener then and I remember it well.


Yep. About 30 years ago(that's around 1976 for those who don't do math
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby Hagar » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:49 pm

Also, at around the same time we were all supposed to disolve from the acid rain.

Ah yes, I remember that.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby Mobius » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:53 pm

I still think we should be more concerned with bovine flatulence.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby Hai Perso Coyone? » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:52 am

Meh...I really don't know what to say about this... ::)
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby commoner » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:48 am

...mm...What's the "worst case scenario" as it is fashionable to say?............We all die!..........so what we all die anyway ...... and good old planet earth moves into a new era in it's 4.5 billion year life.........

............. a poor deal for us maybe, but a great deal for the planet...........commoner ;)
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby beaky » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:47 am

I've always been conservative with my energy use... not to any saintly extent, but I at least try.

The problem with this whole controversy is that there are plenty of other reasons to , for example, phase out fossil fuels:

Limited supply (high demand for oil plus low supply equals war)
Acid rain
Low-level ozone (aka smog)
Most other alternatives, once an infrastructure is established, are cheaper and safer

And regarding global warming: if the Earth is just going through a phase, we still need to reconsider our energy habits... I firmly believe that humans have the technological ability and collective stupidity to make the situation much worse (for us humans!!) than it needs to be. Regardless of which politically-charged camp you're in, the greenhouse effect is real. Our planet's atmosphere is a closed system. Introduce enough CO2 into a closed system and expose it to UV and infrared radiation, and... it gets hotter.  
There will be oscillations from hot to cold, but mean temps are already climbing faster than ever before (that includes the "fossil" record, deduced from polar ice core samples, etc.)

And of course, we have the ability and possibly the collective horse-sense to minimize our contribution before it's too late... well, maybe the ability.  :-/
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby flyboy 28 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:41 pm

During the summer, my dad always says "When it was 90
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby beefhole » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:30 pm

[quote]During the summer, my dad always says "When it was 90
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby Brett_Henderson » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:53 pm

Beef is right.. Changing, average temperatures aren't a theory. The temperature average has always changed. I suppose you can strecth time spans for your sampling and make the change less or more significant. The theories begin when an average temperature change gets linked to man. And it gets problematic when agenda-driven groups latch onto these theories.

We can't alter the cycle. We're just too insignificant. If the global temperature, on a geological time scale, was a big, ten meter, peak-to-peak sine wave... We "might" be able to put a millimeter or two ripple in it.. if that.

Do you know why, after decades of preaching this stuff, the scientific community, as a whole, isn't behind it (aside from the fact that they were warning us of the looming, man-caused ice-age a mere 30 years ago) ?  Because,  not only is it much ado about nothing.. EVEN IF IT WAS FACT.. it's such a nothing ripple that changing it wouldn't make a bit of difference (even if we could).

Now... as for the "a couple of degrees rise will be, BAD" crowd. That's subjective, I guess. If you own a ski resort right on the 45th parallel.. you'll lose a couple days business. I know that's sarcastic, but that's what the "sky is falling" crowd begs for.

Don't get me wrong.. I'm a nature lover, animal lover and don't like the idea of species extinction. That's one thing that does happen when the Earth cycles through its temperature changes. Some flora/fauna are so delicate that those slight changes can and will obliterate them. Immesurably more species are extinct, than exist, today. It happens.. and happened long before we came to be... and will keep happening.

Now.. let's pretend that man-caused global warming (on a scale that would matter) is not only fact.. but will indeed ruin the planet. Does anyone really believe the Earth's ever-growing population can reverse.. or even reduce the momentum ? We'd have to reduce our quality of life more than that quality would have been reduced BY the global warming.

Another point of Beef's is correct. Individuals won't act on the globe's behalf. And if this global warming turns out to be reality.. it would take a global government to deal with it. I don't know about you.. but I'll take my chances on technology being able to deal with it. We can move inland and north over the next several centuries and cope as we go. Besides.. The agenda-driven experts will have something else to wring their hands over by then, anyway.

Common sense dictates energy conservation and polution mangement. Nobody can argue with that. Just keep an eye on the extremists (either side of this issue)... and follow the money  ;)
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby Mobius » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:08 pm



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MOOOO



I am so very sorry to do this during a serious discussion, but it was just too "doom and gloom" here, so I thought we should get some practical ideas to combat pollution.  Is anyone else thinking open season on Holsteins?... ;D ;)
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby PsychoDiablo » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:00 am

if its heating up everywhere else around the world, why is arizona cooling down? we rarely reached over the 110s this summer.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming

Postby commoner » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:12 am

...mmm.....Global Warming may very well be a fact,  but what started the last  ICE AGE...and more to the point what ended the last ICE AGE? You guessed it GLOBAL WARMING!.........sure as hell it wasn't brought on by MAN, neither was it bovine flatulence or any other of the million and one suggestions...........it comes and it goes....and it's it's here to stay for a long time......get used to it............commoner ;)
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