Violisation of our community...

[commoner]

..mm.....a good read and I agree with most or even all of the relevant points so have nothing to add.............but Hagar mentions the "watershed" .........this is a joke. Kids nowadays, or a good percentage of them, don't have a "bedtime"......you can see them running around at all hours, and not just teenagers either.and even if they do occasionally go to bed at 9.00pm they have their own TVs.........we should forget that idea as "protection" and think of something that might have a chance of working............commoner.

I don't have a clue what would work in today's modern society as all my "tried and tested" ideas like firm parenting and a firm hand (in the right spot!) would be regarded as a violation of human rights and all else so far seems to have failed...............

[Omag 2.0]

Hmm... I tend to disagree with the common view on this one...

You can't blame broadcasters? You can't blame game-producers? You darn well can!!!

Come on, where's the common sense!

Yesterday, I saw a documentary on this subject. They showed a military training ( I think it was American, could as well be any other country) where they played commercial first person shooter-games! The goal? To prepare the soldiers mentally on shooting on a human beeing. Target practice makes marksmen, but they can freeze in action because they suddenly realise they aren't shooting on cardboard-plates. They have to experience the shooting of a humanoid object a couple of times to become "at ease" with it!

I don't understand why these games have to become ever more realistic! That's just asking for it... the line between reality and fantasy becomes thinner and thinner...

Look at it this way... back in the days we loved doom. It was like a cartoon-style shooter shooting up monsters. In the documentary I saw a game in wich the player shot a person in the leg. Than he approached, so he could hear the victim moan "it hurst", before spraying fuel on the victim and setting him on fire!

Come on, what's that about? That's not like medal of honor or any other combat sim that tries to let you experience real war. It's vulgar and obnoxious violence!

Of course it's also about parenting, but how on earth do you make sure kids don't get acces to that kind of material?

Start at the source, the people who come up with this...

I'm not saying to ban them all, but eliminate the gratuit, unnessecary violence and make sure the public understands the full consequences of violence...

Omag... extremly happy in an FS-cockpit...

[Souichiro]

Kris... sure you can blame game developers and such.... Probably they play a part too...

As do the parents
the teachers
the friends
the neighborhood
The news
TV programs
Comic Books
Newspapers
Music
ETC
EtC
ETc
...
..
.



But I thin eliminating all these factors might cause some disturbance...

P.s. Got fuel?

[eno]

This sort of discussion is one that my Wife and I have on a regular basis, over all sorts of subjects.

Her ideas are much the same as Kris' ideas.

My take on this ...... Violence is no more prevelent today than it was in the past .... However the perception of more violence is. The perception is perpetuated by the more or less instant reporting of anything violent and sensational. In the early 20th century it would have taken several days/weeks for anything to be reported around the world ..... now it only takes seconds/hours. As for anything happening locally then it would have been by word of mouth or in the weekly rag ..... today almost instantly online or the local tv news.

[Souichiro]

I agree with Andy here ( why couldn't I have siad it so short! )

[Brett_Henderson]

All thing s mentioned can't be summarily discarded, but they can be summarily over-ridden by good, solid parenting.

In my opinion.. the water-mark happened when teachers/principals started getting sued by parents for punishing their children. I know that's a broad, over-simplification, but the point is:  If I were ever punished at school (and I was).. that was just the beginning. My father wouldn't worry that my feelings (or bottom) might be hurt. HIS punishment would make it all seem trivial. I'd pray that the teacher would NOT tell my parents  ;)

Nowadays, kids go home crying and parents show up with lawyers (not anymore, as the touchy-feely educators stopped corporal punishment at about the same time they stopped educating).

Just look at children in public these days. If I, at age 6 or 7, acted the way I see kids act in, for example restaurants...I'd be yanked out by the short-hair and I'd be sitting in the car.. alone.

What's funny is; the old cartoons don't show up much these days.. and their replacements are benign "characterless" drivel. Watching cartoon characters shoot, blow up, axe, run over, dismember each other was no problem, for properly disciplined children. .. just like any media/game violence "should" be no problem. The gratuitous stuff wouldn't be there, if parents didn't buy it for their kids. That stuff is more a symptom of the decline than its cause.

Now the question still lingers.. How why and when did parenting go south ?

[H]

How why and when did parenting go south ?

When it was legally banned, partly due bad parenting, to begin with. As I've said before, we wouldn't have so many laws and regulations if it weren't for some inconsiderate and/or ignorant twit doing the inane. Sadly, all the laws in the world won't rid us of them; for instance, it doesn't take much force to direly injure an infant and it still happens.
On the subject of idiocy and ignorance: a swing set is displayed, sitting on cement and obviously not secured. It is not so unbelievable that a 4-year-old child would go running to the swing and start climbing on it like it was a jungle gym, perhaps not able to read the sign; that the parent, standing there, can't comprehend that their child may slip and crack  their skull is worse than ridiculous -- without even reading the "Display Set Is Not for Play - Please keep Off!"

[Hagar]

Now the question still lingers.. How why and when did parenting go south ?

Bad parenting is nothing new but some would blame Dr. Spock. http://www.notablebiographies.com/Sc-St/Spock-Benjamin.html

Things have certainly changed a great deal since I was a boy but not all for the worse by any means. This happened gradually & I don't think any single event can be blamed for it. The problem children are still in the minority & most young people are basically the same as my mates & I were 50 years ago. Unfortunately, violent behaviour by a minority of troublemakers seems to be tolerated now & affects me & my family personally far more than it ever has. I don't care what the experts or statistics say, I know this is true.

I agree with Eno that part of the problem is the global society we now live in where an atrocity in some obscure place on the other side of the world is immediately reported in our living rooms, usually with graphic images. When I was young it's most likely we would have been blissfully unaware of it.

[Katahu]

When it was legally banned, partly due bad parenting, to begin with. As I've said before, we wouldn't have so many laws and regulations if it weren't for some inconsiderate and/or ignorant twit doing the inane. Sadly, all the laws in the world won't rid us of them; for instance, it doesn't take much force to direly injure an infant and it still happens.
On the subject of idiocy and ignorance: a swing set is displayed, sitting on cement and obviously not secured. It is not so unbelievable that a 4-year-old child would go running to the swing and start climbing on it like it was a jungle gym, perhaps not able to read the sign; that the parent, standing there, can't comprehend that their child may slip and crack  their skull is worse than ridiculous -- without even reading the "Display Set Is Not for Play - Please keep Off!"

Oh the infamous laws of the litigation nation [a.k.a. USA]. Don't get me started on that.

[Brett_Henderson]

What's really complicated about all of this.. and the timing of this discussion, is that it's too late. We're now talking about a generation/product of the decline that are now in fact, parents themselves. What we born pre-1960 see as a decline, is the norm, to them *sigh*

[commoner]

What's really complicated about all of this.. and the timing of this discussion, is that it's too late. We're now talking about a generation/product of the decline that are now in fact, parents themselves. What we born pre-1960 see as a decline, is the norm, to them *sigh*

lol.....and I dare say what we born pre-1930 saw as decline, would be seen as the norm to you eh?............commoner  :P

......and so it goes on........

[Brett_Henderson]

No..  I think from 1930 to 1960..  Most  high school graduates were literate.. and if anything.. it went up in that time period.. Same with deviant behavior.. discipline, respect (for others and themselves)..  

What we've seen from 1970 to date, is a demoralization on all levels. Not trying to dive too deeply into politics, but it's been  liberals (and hippies) of the 1960s, coming of age. Teen pregnancy, intra-generation welfare.. dumbing down of students (I've hired seemingly bright H/S grads who can't find common places on maps, do BASIC math, or compose a readable sentence). This stuff permeates every aspect of their lives. They don't care, because they've never had to care, because their parents don't care and never had to care.

Pride, rugged individualism, and self-respect are out of style and can get you scolded and branded by the politically-correct police.

I'll answer my own question: Parenting went south about the time it became required to have TWO median incomes to raise a family.. Guilty parents try to make up for it through indulgence and no accountability.

I remember a time when kids were actually held back a grade. They and their parents knew that reality.. It was a great motivator.

I also remember when girls were whisked off to live with aunt Mary, soon as their pregnancy became unhideable.. Now, to some, it's almost an honorable thing.

OK.. I'm breaking my own rule about posting when I'm worked up  lol..

[Hagar]

[quote]What we've seen from 1970 to date, is a demoralization on all levels. Not trying to dive too deeply into politics, but it's been

[eno]

No..  I think from 1930 to 1960..  Most  high school graduates were literate.. and if anything.. it went up in that time period.. Same with deviant behavior.. discipline, respect (for others and themselves)..  

What we've seen from 1970 to date, is a demoralization on all levels. Not trying to dive too deeply into politics, but it's been  liberals (and hippies) of the 1960s, coming of age. Teen pregnancy, intra-generation welfare.. dumbing down of students (I've hired seemingly bright H/S grads who can't find common places on maps, do BASIC math, or compose a readable sentence). This stuff permeates every aspect of their lives. They don't care, because they've never had to care, because their parents don't care and never had to care.

Pride, rugged individualism, and self-respect are out of style and can get you scolded and branded by the politically-correct police.

I'll answer my own question: Parenting went south about the time it became required to have TWO median incomes to raise a family.. Guilty parents try to make up for it through indulgence and no accountability.

I remember a time when kids were actually held back a grade. They and their parents knew that reality.. It was a great motivator.

I also remember when girls were whisked off to live with aunt Mary, soon as their pregnancy became unhideable.. Now, to some, it's almost an honorable thing.

OK.. I'm breaking my own rule about posting when I'm worked up  lol..

You might be breaking you own rule ...... but you are completely right.

[beaky]

There's definitely a sort of feedback-loop when it comes to violence (and sex!) in pop culture and mass media (they respond to the demand while also reinforcing it), but to discount all factors except the content of a video game, TV show, radio show, movie, book, image, etc. has become the favorite cop-out of a society that simply passes the buck around when it comes to actually raising children to become decent human beings.