Choosing which firearm to buy.

[RichieB16]

One rifle that I'm suprised that hasn't been mentioned yet (and if it has, I missed it) is a .17HMR  These are nice little target rifles.  They shoot a bullet that is slightly smaller calibur than a .22 but theyare higher velocity and more accurate.  I have a Savage .17 (Model: 93R17) Stainless bolt action rifle and I love it.  I have a cheap scope on it and can shoot one inch groups at 100 yards.  It loses its accuracy (like any small round) after 150-200 yards, but it is a very accuarate rifle.  The ammo is a little more spendy than a .22, but its not that bad.  Also, these are a rim-fire cartridge (like a .22).  I bought a box of 50 last weekend (CCI brand) for $9.50.  The rifle will run probably $200-$250 or so.

Here is what the rifle looks like:

Also, here is the bullet for it.  For size comparision, there is an American Quarter to the left (and its an Oregon Quarter  ;D), in the middle is the .17HRM bullet, and to the right is a standard .22 bullet.

Trust me, if there are P-90's in private hands in the US then they do not own them legally. FN is producing them solely for the military and law enforcement markets.

My point is, there are no laws that outlaw such a firearm-therefore, you CAN own them.  If the producer is selling them exclusivily to military groups-then there probably aren't any legal ones for that reason.  But, there is no law outlawing the ownership of these weapons.  What it comes down to is if anyone has successifully imported one legally and from what I gather-they probably haven't.

[Scorpiоn]

Any automatic firearm manufactured after 1986 cannot be owned by a civilian.  At least that is my understanding.  I would not doubt there is a semi-auto version though, similar to the M4/AR15.

[RichieB16]

[quote]Any automatic firearm manufactured after 1986 cannot be owned by a civilian.

[Brett_Henderson]

The average citizen can't own a P-90. There is no special collector permit, or the infamous "Class III transfer tax"  that will allow someone to buy restricted weapons after a thorough background check.

There are however, countless P-90s in private hands, in the United States. Class III dealers have always ordered and traded amongst themselves more of this type firearm than they end up distributing to law enforcement agencies. There are Class III dealers who never sell (except between each other) a single firearm.

Having custom dies made (for loading the ammunition) is just a matter of sending the dimensions to a machine shop.

[Scorpiоn]

I don't profess to know the exact legislation, so either of you could very well be right.

[RichieB16]

Actually, I must stand corrected.  I just spoke to one of my best friends (he called me as I was reading this thread) and he is a true gunnut-almost to a frightning extent.  I asked him about the laws concerning automatic weapons and he basically said exactly what Brett_Henderson said.  Because the guns were all produced after 1986, they are illegal in civilian hands.  He also said that Class III dealers and law enforcement officals can get a hold of them though.  So, I must admit that I was wrong.

But, he did say that there are rumors that a legal semi-automatic P-90 might be avilable in the future.  So, that could be cool.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.  I still think that a .17HMR is a great rifle for someone who wants to begin shooting.  Its a little more powerful than a .22 but still inexpensive to buy and shoot.  

[Brett_Henderson]

I forgot to comment on that (.17 rimfire)...

I shot that round a few years ago, out of a single-shot, break-open rifle (I think it was a Ruger) with a relatively inexpensive, 9X scope (probably a Tasco).

What a joy it was !  No recoil and eerily accurate out to 100 meters.

[Omag 2.0]

The only tipe of shooting I think would be worth looking into is marksmanship. But then I ask myself, where do you perform that hobby? Are there special terrains in the states where they set up targets?

I can hardly imagine one can go into the woods or plains, set up a target and start shooting with live ammo... what safety-rules are there?

[Woodlouse2002]

I can hardly imagine one can go into the woods or plains, set up a target and start shooting with live ammo... what safety-rules are there?

In England all you need is permission to shoot on the land. You would of course have to use your own judgement on where the bullet might go if not where you intended and act accordingly.

However if target shooting is your thing then you could just go down to a rifle club with a range.

[Woodlouse2002]

Going back to the P-90, I would have thought that any agency wanting them would buy them directly off FN so there wouldn't be much need for dealers to import them for resale.

Having said that I wouldn't be suprised if there were some at my local gunsmiths. You can buy anything from a hunting knife to a chieftan tank there and everything in between. Plus they do custom jobs for special forces and what have you.

[Souichiro]

A guy here in Holland bought a Complete Mig-19 a few months ago just because the authorities said it was impossible.... The authorities weren't amused and took the plane!

[Omag 2.0]

The P-90 allready showed up at several money-transfer hold-ups in Belgium... Shows how easy these special weapons are obtained...

I also read there were protest-marches by police-forces in the US against the legal selling of the Five-SeveN "copkiller".

[Hagar]

I've kept out of this until now but I can't imagine any possible legal reason for an ordinary private citizen owning one of these things. They have one purpose & that is to kill human beings as efficiently as possible.

Going back to the P-90, I would have thought that any agency wanting them would buy them directly off FN so there wouldn't be much need for dealers to import them for resale.

I have no knowledge of the arms trade but most manufacturing companies don't sell direct. They prefer to sell through an authorised dealer of some sort.

[Woodlouse2002]

I have no knowledge of the arms trade but most manufacturing companies don't sell direct. They prefer to sell through an authorised dealer of some sort.

Quite so, however I would have thought that a national army or police force would have their own incorprated dealerships for buying weapons instead of going through some 3rd party.

[alrot]

Sorry to broke this party (is not my intention) I use to have (legaly with permition)a 357 magnum in 1991 to 1999 until I realize that almost every onen are carrien a gun,this is a city of 4 million people and we have more guns that all the New York state,we have 60 deceace for weekends Just in my city Valencia In Caracas The capital Is Much worth,I sold my gun,and Now I rather say ,here is a coward instead ,here lies,
Carring a gun is psicologicly a temptation of power for Us The Men,and sometimes you made mistake I shot a guy(the one who destroy my life) in his leg 9 years ago I almost lost even until my pants and my shirt,to paid the hospital,I was nearly a step  to go to prision,after that horrible incident, wich i regret today,I kept my gun,for 4 more years lock it,until 2003 ,then I sold it,....also I don't like guns,neither for the fact of haunting killing animals in the forrest im against all that.............me the partiescolder