We're Fat

[TacitBlue]

I used to work with a rather large guy and his problem was a complete and total lack of self control. I saw it first hand one day. He actually said "I'm on a diet, and I'm trying to lose weight" around a mouthfull of twinky! He really was trying, but he couldn't do it. no self control.

[beaky]

Exactly. Most of the obese people I know have long family troubles, are depressed, etc.. To quote Fat Bastard from Austin Powers "I eat because I'm unhappy, and I'm unhappy because I eat". That's basically it.

Ah... the wisdom of Fat Bastard... I've forgotten that quote.
But I'll never forget what he said about the extra skin on his neck after he lost the weight!!    :D

[beefhole]

But I'll never forget what he said about the extra skin on his neck after he lost the weight!!    :D

*HEAVY Scottish accent* "Unfortunately, me neck looks a beet like a vagina!"



oops... was I not supposed to say that...

[elite marksman]

Personally, things like this will hopefully never fly. You should not attempt to control what adults eat. And adults must control what thier children eat. Both my parents are large, and until I was 12 I was also a little large for my age. The reason wasn't because I ate too much McDonalds, it was because I ate, and still do eat, three times what I should. If we have a steak dinner, I normally have 3 7oz. steaks, 4 baked potatoes, and several generous helpings of green beans, I have been doing this as long as I can remember, yet I'm 5' 6", and 150lbs, just under average. But then again, I also bike the 4 miles to school, play 3 sports, am in marching band, and run at least 6 miles a day.

As long as no one is forcing me to eat unhealthily, the government should not, and cannot, force me to do otherwise. The people who are obese are that way, with few exceptions, because they choose to. Either they are too lazy to excercise, or they are too apathetic to care. There are a small number of people who are obese due to a disease or genetic defect, but they make up a neglibable portion of the population.

[beefhole]

And adults must control what thier children eat.

Yup.  And ya know what? Most don't.  We don't deal in ideals here, this is the real world.  What people should be doing is all well and good, and also completely irrelevant in this situation.  Of course parents should be controlling consumption-but you know what? They're not.

Both my parents are large, and until I was 12 I was also a little large for my age. The reason wasn't because I ate too much McDonalds, it was because I ate, and still do eat, three times what I should. If we have a steak dinner, I normally have 3 7oz. steaks, 4 baked potatoes, and several generous helpings of green beans, I have been doing this as long as I can remember, yet I'm 5' 6", and 150lbs, just under average. But then again, I also bike the 4 miles to school, play 3 sports, am in marching band, and run at least 6 miles a day.

Exactly!  Do you undertsand that a growing number of Americans are not getting enough, if any exercise, and that their parents are doing nothing about it? Who cares that they should be doing something about it, they aren't.  This is where nationwide campaigns step in.

As long as no one is forcing me to eat unhealthily, the government should not, and cannot, force me to do otherwise.

This is ludicrous.  These campaings are in line with antismoking campaigns-for the love of god, its not about forcing you to do anything, it's about helping you to make a healthy choice.  You know, that thing most Americans aren't doing.

The people who are obese are that way, with few exceptions, because they choose to. Either they are too lazy to excercise, or they are too apathetic to care. There are a small number of people who are obese due to a disease or genetic defect, but they make up a neglibable portion of the population.

A proposterous assertion.  These are the words of someone who is not obese.  Someone who is overwieght will not tell you they choose to be that way, the same way a crack addict will not say they are that way willingly.

The bottom line?  It's a serious social problem that needs to be addressed on a national scale.  You're very correct in what everyone needs to be doing, but you don't seem to be drawing the connection between what people should be doing and what they're actually doing.  These gov't campaings aren't about controlling anything, they're about helping millions to choose better lifestyles before they have no control over what they have become (the unchosen obesity).

[Scorpiоn]

Yup.  And ya know what? Most don't.  We don't deal in ideals here, this is the real world.  What people should be doing is all well and good, and also completely irrelevant in this situation.  Of course parents should be controlling consumption-but you know what? They're not.

Unfortunately Beefhole, I must disagree with you on nearly every point.  This is the real world, and if people cannot fully appreciate the fact that an improper diet will properly result in obesity, then they will suffer the consequences.

Exactly!  Do you undertsand that a growing number of Americans are not getting enough, if any exercise, and that their parents are doing nothing about it? Who cares that they should be doing something about it, they aren't.  This is where nationwide campaigns step in.

Government regulation cannot supercede individual self control.  You said it yourself, parents should be, but they're not.  What ever happened to "tough, deal with it".  Government should have no part in people's diets.  We have enough regulations protecting us from ourselves.  Although, from what I've heard, the Britons have it worse with the H&S people.

This is ludicrous.  These campaings are in line with antismoking campaigns-for the love of god, its not about forcing you to do anything, it's about helping you to make a healthy choice.  You know, that thing most Americans aren't doing.

If it were limited to a awareness campaign, it's pefectly fine, but I've heard murmurings of regulations against the food industry.  As if the FDA hasn't done enough damage.

A proposterous assertion.  These are the words of someone who is not obese.  Someone who is overwieght will not tell you they choose to be that way, the same way a crack addict will not say they are that way willingly.

Here is where I cmpletely agree with you.  Sure, people "chose" to be this way with poor decisions, but I would wager the majority or obese people cannot deal with the temptation or urge of a tasty snack.  If they could choose between skinny/fat, they would choose skinny in a heartbeat, but they just cannot bring themselves to do so.  I suppose the thing here is the interpretation of "choose".

[Jimbo]

I must admit im not the thinest (Dont you dare take the P*SS Foz

[beefhole]

We're going in circles here.

Unfortunately Beefhole, I must disagree with you on nearly every point.  This is the real world, and if people cannot fully appreciate the fact that an improper diet will properly result in obesity, then they will suffer the consequences.

Exactly!  That's the point of these campaigns! To help people avoid the consequences by choosing right in the first place-obesity is not a punishment, as you make it sound (maybe unintentionally), it's an unfortunate consequence.

Government regulation cannot supercede individual self control.  You said it yourself, parents should be, but they're not.  What ever happened to "tough, deal with it".  Government should have no part in people's diets.  We have enough regulations protecting us from ourselves.

I won't say it again.  This is not about controlling anything.  I've made that clear-obviously they need to do a better job of that as well.  When obesity is set to be the #1 cause of preventable death, and it's on the rise, something needs to be done.  Whatever it is we're doing right now, obviously isn't working.  You can't stamp out people being overweight,a nd noone aims to.  What's alarming is that it's reaching epidemic proportions.

If it were limited to a awareness campaign, it's pefectly fine, but I've heard murmurings of regulations against the food industry.

Ok, NOW we're talking about control.  But why not?  So long as they're not absolutely ridiculous, the food companies should be held accountable (to a reasonable extent) the same way tobacco companies should.

As if the FDA hasn't done enough damage.

Right, you mean that useless government agency that keeps the drugs and food we buy safe.  There's a reason they exist, ever heard of what the industry was like pre-regulation?  I don't mean to patronise you, but in case you haven't, look up The Jungle by Sinclair Lewis.

[Jimbo]

This whole thing has turned into a political debate..

[Hagar]

I'm with Jimbo on this one. Nuff said.

[beaky]

There are already loads of government-sponsored awareness programs regarding diet and exercise, and there's not a whole lot they can do directly to keep food out of people's mouths.
As for the tobacco companies, I think they can only be fairly held accountable in two cases: where they hid the facts about cigarette smoking from the publc (as in the cases where people started puffing back when there were fake doctors on TV telling you cigarettes were good for you- no, really, i saw these ads when I was a boy back in the Late Jurassic), or in  the case of focussing their manufacturing process on making cigarettes as addictive as possible, adding substances that present their own hazard, aside from the tar and nicotine and CO. I'm still smoking (though I plan to quit eventually), and I'd never dream of suing a tobacco company for damages should I wind up with a serious health problem attributed to smoking. I knew the risks, and made my choice, and now I'm a nicotine junky.I started at age 21, when I was well aware of the subversion of advertising (I'd read McLuhan in college). Nobody conned me or coerced me. My fault entirely.
 The problem with suing a food producer, distributor or restaurant is that there's no logical place for them to begin protecting people from their own foolishness and laziness. You can become obese eating nothing but Weigh Watchers bland, lo-cal prepared meals, if you eat enough and lie around enough. See what I mean?
The obvious solution seems to be a concerted effort to counteract the appeal of overeating- I believe the persistent lobbying  of the press, film and TV industries was the main reason for the unprecedented deflation of the whole "cool factor" of smoking... smokers are pariahs now.
Try doing that to fat people, and you'll be branded intolerant and cruel. The movement to foster a healthy body-image among girls and women who are not built like Barbie dolls, though a good idea on the surface, has unfortunately  been carried in some cases to the extreme that being a giant lard-ass is considered healthy and sexy... and I guess, for some people it is; I know a few guys who think Reubenesque women are very sexy. And lots of Americans eat like wild boars, yet thanks to their DNA , an active lifestyle, and a balanced (if bulky) diet, they are not overweight... try telling them they will be punished or fined for BBQing a whole pig for only 12 guests, and there will be an armed insurrection.
But I think my point is clear: A law against overeating and not exercising would be unenforceable, and a smear campaign against the overweight would backfire, unlike the war against smoking, because most people in this country are overweight, and food is considered safe, whereas smoke is obviously not good for you.
By the same token, of course, the obese have a lot of nerve suing McDonald's or whoever just because their product was what they were shovelling into their gullets at every opportunity, as they sat in their car or in front of the TV. Most "fat camps" for kids place the dining hall atop a modestly-graded hill, so the kids are forced to walk uphill a ways to get to the food. They know quite well how the damage is done.
The only workable solution is for parents to try to set a good example at the dinner table, at the mall, at restaurants, etc. Teach kids that not every meal is a feast, and healthy snacks can be just as yummy as the stuff they see advertised on TV, and get them to exercise, even if it means bribing them with donuts.

[Mees]

Personally I put this obesity thing down to two problems;
a) lack of self discipline (e.g. not taking exercise)
b) the "now" culture of everything instantly, no delayed gratification...

yeah but that's cuz' you're a teacher..........


i'm way too fat, round 10 KG too heavy :-/ :-/
i play soccer almost 7 hours a week though :-/

i'm just...... meant to be fat.... :-/

[beefhole]

This whole thing has turned into a political debate..

Common guys, should that honestly be of any surprise?  All you have to do is like at the very first post to know it couldn'tve headed in any other direction.  This thread was a political debate from the point it was created.  Therefore, posts saying "ugh this has become political" shouldn't be necessary.

[Hagar]

The point is that politics shouldn't come into it. If they treated any other section of the community like smokers & now fatties there would be riots in the streets. It's nothing short of discrimination & will often have the opposite result to that intended. In my case this made it far more difficult for me to quit smoking but I finally succeeded despite the best efforts of the anti-smoking brigade. Now they've won they will turn their attention to other sections of the community so beware. You might be next on the thought police hit list.

There is also the risk of turning people, especially young women, into anorexics or bulimics. Which is worse?

[Saitek]

Fat? Your buisness no-one elses. Your heart, your life. The government has no right in saying what you do.

Too thin? Your buisness no-one elses. Your life. The government has no right in saying what you do.

Just the right size? Your buisness no-one elses. Your life. The government has no right in saying what you do.

That is it; end of story. I cannot accept that a food company can bare any responsibiltiy for fatty foods either - if they state the fat content. People are responsible for themselves.

As for smoking that is a different domain. To be open minded could it be counted as occasioning actual bodily harm by breathing smoke on a non-smoker? Is repeated smoking in areas with non-smokers an offence because of the harm it causes them? Havig done some law, I can see where the government is comming from in it being anti.

Well done Doug for giving it up.

Now before anyone says so - cars are different - smoking is drug taking and unlike car exhausts there is no need for  drugs used in this way.