The Shuttle was a MISTAKE?

[beaky]

I can't help but think that the first nutcase to venture beyond the horizon in a boat heard similar arguments. People must've thought it was insanity, to venture into the unknown like that; to go someplace where people just didn't belong, in the hope of finding... what?
 And the great age of ocean voyaging, with all the good and bad results it brought to humanity, was initially made possible only by direct government involvement and funding, but now it's routine business to haul goods and people all over the planet by ship. Doesn't seem like a  pointless burden to a nation's treasury, now...
Air travel was the next phase of that, allowing  access and a better understanding of our world and how it works, far beyond even the dreams of the first pioneers of flight.  But for a long time, aviation was not much more than crazy stunts with no apparent practical purpose. War was the catalyst that made it what it is today in less than a century, but as we all know, there's a whole lot more to aviation now than its military applications.
To me, the story doesn't end at the top of the atmosphere, and the amazing achievements we've seen so far in space are just the first baby steps to the stars. As was the case with other breakthroughs in travel, I believe that someday the political motivation, risk-taking, and sacrifices will look very different in light of the way the exploration and exploitation of space might transform life on Earth, directly and indirectly.
 Wouldn't bother me at all to see the Shuttles grounded and replaced with simpler, cheaper, more task-specific craft, and as far as the ISS goes, if it were up to me, it would primarily serve to support missions to the Moon, and a Moon base would primarily serve to support missions to Mars, etc.
We don't have so much to prove anymore, but we've got a whole universe out there to explore...

[Katahu]

You know, is never crossed my mind if Christopher Columbos went through the same arguement we are going through right now. Interesting.

[H]

I can't help but think that the first nutcase to venture beyond the horizon in a boat heard similar arguments. People must've thought it was insanity, to venture into the unknown like that; to go someplace where people just didn't belong, in the hope of finding....

An older gent recently repeated something that my grandmother used to quote; she said it in response to our space flights but admitted it was around during the begining of air flight, which was seen as somewhere "where man wasn't supposed to go." I've incorporated this theme in the .avi lyrics to the WW1 mini-mission I've been working on but the particular quote is "They shall go up but they shall come down."
I kind of understand this common mode of man; I've sometimes fought a change then, once achieved, fought a subsequent change of affairs. On the other hand, I've also fought for changes when others involved didn't want to.

P.S. modification: Katahu, you hadn't posted when I opened to respond; Columbus wouldn't have had such a problem getting financing if more than a few had believed in his venture. Spain wasn't his first attempt.

[Hagar]

Nobody could ever accuse me of not having dreams or living in the past despite the way I sometime present myself. Woody has expressed it more succinctly than I would but this is exactly the way I feel about it. I agree with every word. Space travel cannot be compared to Columbus or exploring this planet of ours. For one thing, space is a hostile environment where no human being can exist without artificial support. Everything you need has to be taken with you & if it runs out or something goes wrong you're dead. Simple as that. The only comparison here is beneath the sea which is far from being conquered or properly explored yet.

It's quite natural for Man to explore his own environment & due to gravity he will always return to it - until going too far where there is no gravity or atmosphere. This is not superstition or mystery, we have conclusive proof of it. As for this dream of settlements on other planets with regular space flights transporting people to them has anyone ever considered the logistics involved? With the technology we have now this will be restricted to a very limited & elite group of people, if it's possible at all. If this planet dies, which it undoubtedly will one day, most of the people living on it will die with it. I'm quite certain of that so we'd better get used to it.

There's so much I would like to say on this subject but it's difficult to put into words. I know my views will probably offend many people but I believe in what I'm saying as deeply as the strongest supporter for the space program. In the end it all comes down to politics. I believe that now even more than I did 40 years ago when all this started. This has a familiar ring to it.

I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth. No single space project...will be more exciting, or more impressive to mankind, or more important...and none will be so difficult or expensive to accomplish...".
President John F. Kennedy, May 1961

[JBaymore]

Space travel cannot be compared to Columbus or exploring this planet of ours. For one thing, space is a hostile environment where no human being can exist without artificial support. Everything you need has to be taken with you & if it runs out or something goes wrong you're dead. Simple as that.

Hum....... in the days of Columbus long distance sea travel could have been so described.

[Woodlouse2002]

You're all forgetting that Columbus did not set out to find America, neither did he set out to proove the world was round nor did he just sail into the wild blue yonder and hope for the best.

In the 15th century people knew the world was round. After all, why did ships disappear over the horizon? Columbus was out to find an eastern trade route with India, hence the islands on which he lived were named the West Indies and the natives were called Indians.

Even after Columbus many of the following explorers were still out to find the west route to India and a way of getting to the Pacific via the Atlantic. It was only after Magellan that the exploration of the americas really began.

You also forget that the Vikings found America centurys before Columbus.


You really cannot compare the exploration of earth with rocketing off into space and searching for the unknown. More people have been on the moon than in the deepest depths of the oceans and there are millions of species of insects, fish and animals that remain undiscovered on our very own planet and instead of putting any effort into discovering new things about earth you seem more commited to blasting yourselfs onto some stone 80 million miles away in the hope that you might be able to live there once you've buggered up this planet for all those who won't have the option to leave. And then you forget that as Hagar said, life cannot support itself out there, so everything has to be supported artificially and everything has to be taken there.

And then if something goes wrong then say your prayers cause there ain't no way anyones going to save you in time. Sure you can say the same about exploring the seven seas and the remotest corners of the earth, but there will always be more ships that space ships, always more people on earth than in space and your chances of survival will always be greater on earth because that is your natural habitat, the one you evolved to live in.

And so without even mentioning politics, space travel and exploration is a complete waste of time.

[Hagar]

John. I have no wish to get into a long debate over this or I would give detailed responses to all your points. All I ask is that instead of contradicting everything I say you give me some credit as a reasonably intelligent human being. I was there in the 1960s when all this began & I've given it considerable thought in the years since. Nothing has changed in over 40 years to change my mind & if anything I'm even more convinced now.

This is purely from curiosity as it doesn't matter to me whether they carry on with the space project or not - or how much time, effort & money they spend on it as long as I'm not helping to pay for it. I've heard all these arguments countless times before so you're simply repeating what I already know. I'm not likely to change your mind about this any more than you will change mine. As an American I think you're too close to it. All I ask is that you try stepping back & looking at it from my detached & unbiased point of view & you might understand what I'm trying to say & see that at least some of what I'm saying could possibly be right.

PS. These are my own personal views formed after pondering this for many years & coming to my own conclusions. I have no political affiliations or motives & have not been influenced by or read any detailed anti-space/anti-NASA propaganda.

[Ben_M_K]

I'm too young to have TOO much of an opinion on this issue, so I'll keep my mouth shut about it. But I just wanted to say to Woody to stop bashing Bush. You don't know it was a farce just to get re-elected. You don't have facts. And plus, that's REALLY pollitical and offensive to me.

Ben

[Woodlouse2002]

I'm too young to have TOO much of an opinion on this issue, so I'll keep my mouth shut about it. But I just wanted to say to Woody to stop bashing Bush. You don't know it was a farce just to get re-elected. You don't have facts. And plus, that's REALLY pollitical and offensive to me.

Ben

Some things you just have to either accept or ignore. If you find it offensive I suggest you ignore it.

[TacitBlue]

Yes, we probably should spend our money on fighting disease and world hunger. Yes, space is dangerous, and inhospitable. The shuttle is an amazing peice of 1970s technology, we can do better now. BUT, as long as people are going to space I will continue to be fascinated by it. Personally I believe that the real leaps and bounds of space exploration will be made by private companies. SS1 opened the door, and believe me, more will follow. I predict that within ten years we will see a private orbital spacecraft, and from there- who knows.  

[Saitek]

Some things you just have to either accept or ignore. If you find it offensive I suggest you ignore it.

If it is found offensive, or rather, if it is politics it is banned. I would suggest that as a teenager in the UK (same with me yes!) you actually know little of US politics anyway to make assumptions.  ::)

[Ben_M_K]

No Woodlouse, it is not something I need to "accept" because you have no way to prove it is true. NOTHING! >:(

[Woodlouse2002]

Like you announce I have no way of proving it as true, you have no way as proving it as false so we're just going to have to agree to disagree.


And Saitek, as a teenager in the UK you do not know enough about me to make assumptions that I do not know enough to make assumptions about american politics.

[Katahu]

Easy there children. Want a lolly pop to calm you down?

[Ben_M_K]

And I NEVER said it WAS false!!! You're the one who shouldn't make statements without facts...